Explodes at start of taxi

[Tusky]

En 10/3/2023 a las 22:49, Otto pallen dijo:

Even with the new OB we still explode while taxiing, sob

Just happened to me in Akrotiri in the Aerobatics EU - Syria server while taxing to runway 10: blacked out twice and then the landing gear got damaged. The accelerometer's needle went up and down as if the plane was in a turbulence. 8 knots of wind at ground level and the problem started when the wind hit the aircraft as a crosswind...

The aircraft has been out for a while and the problem is still there...  

[Coldsteel319]

This blackout and spontaneous explosion bug has been present since launch.

Does Indiafoxtecho has any intention to fix it ?

 

[Gianky]

Surely, it'd be nice to have some update from the devs on this problem: right now, it's keeping me from flying the 339.

From what Duke said in this thread, it is, unfortunately, a very randomic and unusual issue, I'm guessing it's really hard to track down it's source and fix it; we should provide IFE with as many tracks as we can to help them find the problem.

[XpRiV]

I had this issue while using the Freeware MB339 once the payware version was released. I might be barking up the wrong tree, but, if its only happening on servers and not on SP, could it have something to do with the freeware MB339? Maybe there is still remnents of it on the servers maybe.

Once i removed the freeware MB339 from my PC, I have never had the issue again.

P.S. I don't fly online, totally SP.

Edited April 17, 2023 by XpRiV

[gulredrel]

29 minutes ago, XpRiV said:

I had this issue while using the Freeware MB339 once the payware version was released. I might be barking up the wrong tree, but, if its only happening on servers and not on SP, could it have something to do with the freeware MB339? Maybe there is still remnents of it on the servers maybe.

Once i removed the freeware MB339 from my PC, I have never had the issue again.

P.S. I don't fly online, totally SP.

 

No, happening SP offline for me and I had never installed the freeware mod before.

[Coldsteel319]

It occurs in both single and multi players. 

Honestly, this blackout and spontaneous explosion bug has stopped me flying this plane completely. There is no point to start in the air and never land.

[gulredrel]

3 hours ago, Coldsteel319 said:

It occurs in both single and multi players. 

Honestly, this blackout and spontaneous explosion bug has stopped me flying this plane completely. There is no point to start in the air and never land.

For me it's okay in SP having zero wind at ground level. You may try this. Of course, this will not help in MP when server enforces wind greater zero.

[Coldsteel319]

I think a refund option should be offered if they can't fix the bug.

[RatMan]

I encountered this problem twice in a row on Hoggit TNN. Intersection of Ramp 1 and 09 just before entering the runway. Slow taxi speed, no steering applied, controls free. Unfortunately the track file is 110mb or so, but if it's helpful I can put it on Google Drive. MB-339 is at the beginning of the session.

In the past I tried to correlate the bug with specific parts of specific airfields, but was unable to consistently replicate the problem. Now that it's happened again, I guess it's worth checking out. It's worth noting the exaggerated bump just before the fatal bump in the first one, and the different locations of the second attempt vs the first. 

 

[gulredrel]

8 hours ago, RatMan said:

I encountered this problem twice in a row on Hoggit TNN. Intersection of Ramp 1 and 09 just before entering the runway. Slow taxi speed, no steering applied, controls free. Unfortunately the track file is 110mb or so, but if it's helpful I can put it on Google Drive. MB-339 is at the beginning of the session.

In the past I tried to correlate the bug with specific parts of specific airfields, but was unable to consistently replicate the problem. Now that it's happened again, I guess it's worth checking out. It's worth noting the exaggerated bump just before the fatal bump in the first one, and the different locations of the second attempt vs the first. 

 

Looks like the same as on my tries. Totally strange AoA-values (-178°) followed by massive g-spike and bang, broken plane.

@6S.Dukecurrently had no details on this and was investigating.
For me it can be solved in SP with 0 windspeed. Especially wind from the rear caused these large negative AoA values as can be seen in status bar. But not sure, if it is really related and how this would cause the g-spikes and jumping plane.

[Lookiss]

I've done some more taxiing. I found that if I stay around 5-6 kn, I don't black out or damage anything. According to the manual taxiing can be done up to 15 kn though. So something it not right.

[Gianky]

Did anyone experienced this bug after last patch? Any hopes it finally went away?

[Ducksen]

The MB339 explodes when taxi. I fly with a rather attentive and professional group. We all have the thing explode.
It seems to find a hole in the ground and fall through. It seems to hit bumps that make your pilot representation get GLOC and black out.

This is when taxi slow and has nothing to do with NWS on or off. Cold start, hot start. All the same. All airfields.
The module is quite a mess with it in this state.

I would like to use the MB339 as a trainer. At the moment it is unusable for this.
I see bugfixes come out for the MB339, but nothing about the exploding on taxi.

Would be real easy for the developer to taxi a bit and see for them selves.

I can live with small bugs and errors. But exploding on taxi is a game/sim breaker.

An Please IndiaFoxtrotEcho, be vocal about this issue, talk about it and say you know it is an issue. See if you can work with Eagle Dynamics to find a solution.

Looking forward to seeing a change here.

[6S.Duke]

Hello everyone, recently we have been able to reproduce the nose wheel issue so we have worked to fix this annoying problem.
With this message I would like to ask you to test our work before to include in the next release of the game and to report back the results of your individual test on this post on our discord.

Before to install the new files, remember to make a backup of the old ones.

In the.rar attached to this message you will find three different files:

1. Config.lua
2. MB-339A.lua
3. MB-339APAN.lua

Go to:

<YOUR_DCS_ROOT_FOLDER>\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\Aircraft\MB-339\FM

Replace the Config.lua file

Then go to:

<YOUR_DCS_ROOT_FOLDER>\DCS World OpenBeta\CoreMods\aircraft\MB-339

Replace the MB-339A.lua and MB-339APAN.lua files.

 

Thank you for your time and your patience.

Nosewheel_Fix_RC1.rar

Edited June 20, 2023 by 6S.Duke

[gulredrel]

No luck so far

Track attached, also on discord.

Heavy g-spike, blackout, nose gear / hydraulic loss.

Thanks anyway, hope the track will help to analyse.

MB-339_RC1_taxi_test.trk

[Gianky]

Hey guys!

First of all, @6S.Duke and the team, thanks for this fix. I've been more or less vocal about this bug, lately, both here and on Discord, and knowing that you guys are working on a solution, even if we don't see or hear anything from you, it's reassuring.

That said, unfortunately the bug is still here, even though it might be less obnoxious than before. I'm gonna post some tracks, hoping they're not corrupted and can be of help.

I set up a couple of 339s with high weight in a training mission of mine in Caucasus and used a couple of airports where I knew the bug presented itself, Anapa and Kobuleti. All tests were run on the single threaded version of DCS. In some of them (tracks 1 and 6 to 8), I set up a 55 degree (direction from where the wind is coming) 6 knots wind, with no turbulence; in the others (tracks 2 to 7 and 9), wind is coming from the same direction, but it's 12 knots and there's a 6 *0.1 feet turbulence.

As you'll see (hopefully), the crashes (IIRC) all happened on the missions with the strongest wind settings; also, it appears to me that it happens only when there's full rudder/nosewheel applied, or there are strong lateral forces on the airframe; IIRC when I taxied without too much steering, even at high speed, there were no occurances of the bug.

I hope these tracks and my little report can be of help to finally squash this nasty bug. If you guys want me to run some specific test, just ask.

One more thing: in the last tracks you can see that NW steering deactivates itself when I steer at high speed or on the grass: is that normal? Could it be somehow related to the issue at hand?

 

MB 339 Test 1.trk MB 339 Test 2.trk MB 339 Test 3.trk MB 339 Test 4.trk MB 339 Test 5.trk MB 339 Test 6.trk MB 339 Test 7.trk MB 339 Test 8.trk MB 339 Test 9.trk

[6S.Duke]

Hey guys!
First of all, @6S.Duke and the team, thanks for this fix. I've been more or less vocal about this bug, lately, both here and on Discord, and knowing that you guys are working on a solution, even if we don't see or hear anything from you, it's reassuring.
That said, unfortunately the bug is still here, even though it might be less obnoxious than before. I'm gonna post some tracks, hoping they're not corrupted and can be of help.
I set up a couple of 339s with high weight in a training mission of mine in Caucasus and used a couple of airports where I knew the bug presented itself, Anapa and Kobuleti. All tests were run on the single threaded version of DCS. In some of them (tracks 1 and 6 to 8), I set up a 55 degree (direction from where the wind is coming) 6 knots wind, with no turbulence; in the others (tracks 2 to 7 and 9), wind is coming from the same direction, but it's 12 knots and there's a 6 *0.1 feet turbulence.
As you'll see (hopefully), the crashes (IIRC) all happened on the missions with the strongest wind settings; also, it appears to me that it happens only when there's full rudder/nosewheel applied, or there are strong lateral forces on the airframe; IIRC when I taxied without too much steering, even at high speed, there were no occurances of the bug.
I hope these tracks and my little report can be of help to finally squash this nasty bug. If you guys want me to run some specific test, just ask.
One more thing: in the last tracks you can see that NW steering deactivates itself when I steer at high speed or on the grass: is that normal? Could it be somehow related to the issue at hand?
 
MB 339 Test 1.trk MB 339 Test 2.trk MB 339 Test 3.trk MB 339 Test 4.trk MB 339 Test 5.trk MB 339 Test 6.trk MB 339 Test 7.trk MB 339 Test 8.trk MB 339 Test 9.trk

Thank you for your detailed report, I will consider all your tips.
Regarding the deactivation is normal. The NWS activation/deactivation is commanded by the WoW microswitch located on the left landing gear, the NWS is deactivated automatically when the left landing gear lifts from the ground. When you steer at high speed sometimes it happens that the left main landing gear lifts from the ground despite the other two wheels are still on ground.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_I005D utilizzando Tapatalk

[Gianky]

3 hours ago, 6S.Duke said:

Thank you for your detailed report, I will consider all your tips.

Thank you and the Team for your work, I hope my test can be useful.

3 hours ago, 6S.Duke said:

Regarding the deactivation is normal. The NWS activation/deactivation is commanded by the WoW microswitch located on the left landing gear, the NWS is deactivated automatically when the left landing gear lifts from the ground. When you steer at high speed sometimes it happens that the left main landing gear lifts from the ground despite the other two wheels are still on ground.

Got it, I didn't think of WOW, it makes perfect sense, the airplane was leaning heavily on the side.

[Gianky]

@6S.Duke one question: is the fix IC compliant? Will I be able to try it online?

[6S.Duke]

@6S.Duke one question: is the fix IC compliant? Will I be able to try it online?

Good question, honestly we didn't try with the IC on.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_I005D utilizzando Tapatalk

[thebeloved]

12 hours ago, Gianky said:

@6S.Duke one question: is the fix IC compliant? Will I be able to try it online?

Apparently we can't, this is what I get when I launch the MP server selection list

null

[Gianky]

Thanks guys, I can confirm that we can't test the fix online in pure client servers.

@thebeloved how do you open that window? I never saw it before...

[thebeloved]

21 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Thanks guys, I can confirm that we can't test the fix online in pure client servers.

@thebeloved how do you open that window? I never saw it before...

Hi @Gianky just click on the red shield in the multiplayer selection window:

null

We can test the patch in the Enigma Cold War Server as it doesn't require Pure Clients.

I did a test before and I was able to taxi and takeoff. I will do other tests with different payloads. I'll be on the server for the next 30 mins, airbase Sochi. Feel free to join to test. I'm available in SRS to chat if we don't bother other active players.

Edited June 23, 2023 by thebeloved

[thebeloved]

Ok, tested on Enigma server. No luck, it crashed on line up. Track attached as a reference.

Cold-War-Caucasus-BIG-v227_DME2-20230623-121334.trk

[Gianky]

4 hours ago, thebeloved said:

Hi @Gianky just click on the red shield in the multiplayer selection window:

null

We can test the patch in the Enigma Cold War Server as it doesn't require Pure Clients.

I did a test before and I was able to taxi and takeoff. I will do other tests with different payloads. I'll be on the server for the next 30 mins, airbase Sochi. Feel free to join to test. I'm available in SRS to chat if we don't bother other active players.

 

Hi @thebeloved, thank you for the tip, I never thought of clicking the shield!

Thank you for the offer, also, unfortunately, I'm still stuck at work... maybe another time, since it seems we're in the same time zone. I never played in Enigma's, I try it tonight.