user mod issue Setting Countermeasures manually on DED

[skywalker22]

When trying to set ECM (chaffs and flares) manually from the DED, for very 1st time, if you try to insert just 0 or 1, it is not excepted in any program number - ever. If you enter a higher number then 1, so 2, 3 or any other number, it works fine.

 

f16_ecm_issue.trk

[Raptor9]

I just watched your track (multiple times due to the rapid fire data entry), and the numbers were accepted just fine. I'm not seeing the issue you are describing, nor did I have any issue modifying any programs when I tried it myself. 1's and 0's went in without any issue.

[skywalker22]

8 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

I just watched your track (multiple times due to the rapid fire data entry), and the numbers were accepted just fine. I'm not seeing the issue you are describing, nor did I have any issue modifying any programs when I tried it myself. 1's and 0's went in without any issue.

Sure there is an issue.

track1: For the 1st time, when coming on CMDS page, and trying to set number of chaffs and/or flares value to zero, it is just not accepted. 

track2: One more thing, if you spawn as hot, and if you do not go on CMDS page and change some value of chaffs and flares (even just overwriting 1 with 1), you are unable to use them, despite being set to 1 (per chaff and per flares) per burst. Seems like there is only showing values of 1, but they are really 0 (since you are unable to fire any chaff or flare). But as soon as you set some chaff of flare to 1 (or some other number), ALL other values in all 6 programs are reset to zero (check my 2nd track). But as soon as you insert some value, then that CM start to work (if insert 1 per chaff, 1 chaff can be release with a button press), and so on for other CM and any program.

f16_ecm_issue.trk f16_ecm_issue2.trk

Edited November 1, 2022 by skywalker22

[BIGNEWY]

Hi please attach your dcs log, are you using any custom edits or mods for counter measures?

[skywalker22]

I used to have Dice, but I uninstall in with v2.8, since there IC didn't go through in multiplayer. I will start DCS ones again, and only do this simple mission with CMs.

[BIGNEWY]

please run a repair or verify if steam just to be sure 

[skywalker22]

Hm... after another Repair, CMs seem to WORK! They work without even touching the CMDS page in DED. It work as it is set there: for Program1, 10chaffs and 10 flairs, 1 sec between each burst. I really don't know what was wrong before. And as I said, I did 2 repairs already since installing v2.8. Go figure... I wouldn't start this thread in the 1st place... Thx @BIGNEWY for all your help.

@BIGNEWY one more thing, what happens, if I change the MDS_ALE47.lua file? Will IC go through? Does IC check the file "content"?

Edited November 1, 2022 by skywalker22

[BIGNEWY]

If the server is running pure client you wont be able to edit these files, if they are using normal IC you should be fine. 

Thanks for letting me know that you issue is fixed, please remember we can not test with edits or changes to the game, we can only test vanilla game files. 

thank you 

[Falconeer]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

If the server is running pure client you wont be able to edit these files, if they are using normal IC you should be fine. 

Thanks for letting me know that you issue is fixed, please remember we can not test with edits or changes to the game, we can only test vanilla game files. 

thank you 

For the chaff and flare program settings, this should be an exclusion.

 

There is absolute no exploit or cheating when users create their own chaff and flare programs with different quantities or burst settings

[Rubberduck85]

On 11/1/2022 at 2:01 PM, Falconeer said:

For the chaff and flare program settings, this should be an exclusion.

 

There is absolute no exploit or cheating when users create their own chaff and flare programs with different quantities or burst settings

+1

no time to enter custom cms programs via DED every time...

[falconzx]

or... just put as default a program with 1CH and another one with 1FL (i thinks this is what most of us want when changing those programs) 
This could be a 1 minute fix for ED, that save to us hours changing those programs

Edited November 11, 2022 by falconzx

[skywalker22]

37 minutes ago, falconzx said:

or... just put as default a program with 1CH and another one with 1FL (i thinks this is what most of us want when changing those programs) 
This could be a 1 minute fix for ED, that save to us hours changing those programs

 

I would also like that, I would dare to say that 95% of us use like program one 1 chaff, and program two 1 flare (or vice verse), all else params are 0. Specially because F-16 is so limited with CMs. So this would be best idea. But I don't know what ED thinks about it. Shell we listen to them?

Edited November 11, 2022 by skywalker22

[Rubberduck85]

1 hour ago, falconzx said:

or... just put as default a program with 1CH and another one with 1FL (i thinks this is what most of us want when changing those programs) 
This could be a 1 minute fix for ED, that save to us hours changing those programs

 

Or...remove cmds_ale47.lua from the integrity checklist until DTC is developed and deployed. It would take less than a minute to add the exception. As @Falconeer said, no possible cheat/exploit is possible in this regard. And the initiative of pure client is laudable, but this looks extreme.

 

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

I would also like that, I would dare to say that 95% of us use like program one 1 chaff, and program two 1 flare (or vice verse), all else params are 0. Specially because F-16 is so limited with CMs. So this would be best idea. But I don't know what ED thinks about it. Shell we listen to them?

 

I see your point but we already have BYPASS for how "95% of us" supposedly use CMs. 1 press= 1 chaff + 1 flare.

Long story short: imho the cascaded effects of pure client enforcement on this specific file, while not having a DTC, is a QOL decrease if you wanna use custom programs.

Unless someone has a fetish for data entry...

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Rubberduck85

[Exorcet]

If we were to have defaults for 1C1F, Program 1/2 wouldn't be the way to go. It would require you to switch programs. Prog 1/6 would map both to the HOTAS at once and remove any need for switching while also retaining the slap button for flare dump in a WVR emergency.

[TobiasA]

Am 1.11.2022 um 11:45 schrieb BIGNEWY:

If the server is running pure client you wont be able to edit these files, if they are using normal IC you should be fine. 

Thanks for letting me know that you issue is fixed, please remember we can not test with edits or changes to the game, we can only test vanilla game files. 

thank you 

Can we please come back to having custom sequences again?

At least unless we have a DTC?

Would really appreciate it, I don't want to edit the sequence each time. Thanks in advance for that!

[BIGNEWY]

15 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

Can we please come back to having custom sequences again?

At least unless we have a DTC?

Would really appreciate it, I don't want to edit the sequence each time. Thanks in advance for that!

If the server is not running pure scripts then nothing has changed. 
Pure scripts is there to make sure there are no modifications or edits on the game files, it is working as intended, however there will be a tweak in the next patch for users that experience IC fail after exit. 

[itn]

54 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

If the server is not running pure scripts then nothing has changed. 
Pure scripts is there to make sure there are no modifications or edits on the game files, it is working as intended, however there will be a tweak in the next patch for users that experience IC fail after exit. 

Sorry for the somewhat long text but I wanted to make this reply as comprehensive as I could to make the point as clear as possible.

You have received specific, actionable feedback and requests for specific files to be exluded. In my opinion you do not address that specific feedback regarding CMDS luas. The argument is not for or against pure scripts IC (PSIC) altogether. The argument is that you should exclude CMDS luas from PSIC. Including them is user-hostile unless good reason has been demonstrated for the restriction.

What happened with 2.8, supposedly a quality of life update, is that for this part we lost some QOL which we would like back. Specifically the ability to edit CMDS luas. We're not asking you to support any 3rd party DTC mods either, we're just asking you not to actively hinder the experience or remove the "feature" we've had before, unless for a good reason.

Especially for ED's own modules I think it's hard to argue for including CMDS luas in PSIC.
- If there are known exploits, you should fix them. Why would you let people suffer from known exploits, with or without PSIC?
- If there are no known exploits or other, truly relevant adverse effects on other players in MP, they should not be included in PSIC. Including them has caused QOL issues with no concrete benefits to anyone. Exclude them for at least as long as you implement saved CM programs / DTCs in-game, which we're all eagerly waiting for.
- If 3rd party modules (planes/helicopters) are an issue, make them fix their stuff. Do keep their CMDS luas in PSIC if there are known exploits, or if there is a strong possibility for such exploits. For example if they have huge luas with lots of stuff, I'd say they belong under PSIC. (NOTE: I don't know much about 3rd party planes and if they have similar CMDS luas or not).

The fact that PSIC is optional for server admins does not justify too far-reaching IC. Server option should be a secondary aspect, to limit the negative effects that cannot be removed even after trying to make the PSIC itself as user-friendly as possible. if you gave server admins these two options, mostly I think they'd choose only the first one, not both:
- Prevent who knows which exploits might lurk in LUAs now or in the future [ ]
- Prevent pre-made custom CMS programs with no known exploits whatsoever [ ]

At the moment the server options is more like: "Prevent who knows which exploits might lurk in LUAs now or in the future, and prevent pre-made custom CMS programs [ ]". It's the latter part we have issue with and why we're asking for limited exclusions.

I sincerely thank you for the efforts to restrict cheating and trying to make the MP experience as level as possible. It's not easy. This time I think you have overreached and hope that you'll find the proper balance.

Thanks,
itn

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

thank you for the feedback, but we are not over reaching, sadly a pure client is needed to ensure no cheating can be done. It is optional for the server depending on what level of protection they require. The server only has to untick pure client and it is the same as before the patch for those who do edit game files. 

thank you

[itn]

9 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi

thank you for the feedback, but we are not over reaching, sadly a pure client is needed to ensure no cheating can be done. It is optional for the server depending on what level of protection they require. The server only has to untick pure client and it is the same as before the patch for those who do edit game files. 

thank you

That's too bad, but thanks for the reply.

[skywalker22]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi

thank you for the feedback, but we are not over reaching, sadly a pure client is needed to ensure no cheating can be done. It is optional for the server depending on what level of protection they require. The server only has to untick pure client and it is the same as before the patch for those who do edit game files. 

thank you

What is cheasting, if one sets their CMs in a file, and use them after that indefinitely? Now we have to set each single time when jumping into the fighter jet. It became quite annoying indeed.

Edited November 14, 2022 by skywalker22

[BIGNEWY]

19 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

What is cheasting, if one sets their CMs in a file, and use them after that indefinitely? Now we have to set each single time when jumping into the fighter jet. It became quite annoying indeed.

 

I wont discuss exploits in a public forum sorry. 
I also understand that setting them to your individual preference is preferred, as mentioned the server can untick use pure client.

In the future we will have the DTC for setting this also. 

thanks 

[Hobel]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb skywalker22:

What is cheasting, if one sets their CMs in a file, and use them after that indefinitely? Now we have to set each single time when jumping into the fighter jet. It became quite annoying indeed.

 

99-100% of the current servers have the option off, so at the moment you can use  DICE and Edit the CMD lua without any problems.

You only need  to restart the game after a server change.
and as BN said a tweak is on the way.

[skywalker22]

37 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I wont discuss exploits in a public forum sorry. 
I also understand that setting them to your individual preference is preferred, as mentioned the server can untick use pure client.

In the future we will have the DTC for setting this also. 

thanks 

 

10 minutes ago, Hobel said:

99-100% of the current servers have the option off, so at the moment you can use  DICE and Edit the CMD lua without any problems.

You only need  to restart the game after a server change.
and as BN said a tweak is on the way.

Underastood. Thx guys.

[TobiasA]

vor einer Stunde schrieb BIGNEWY:

I wont discuss exploits in a public forum sorry. 
I also understand that setting them to your individual preference is preferred, as mentioned the server can untick use pure client.

In the future we will have the DTC for setting this also. 

thanks 

Well I am sad that someone did use exploits to a point that made it necessary to include the ALE settings into IC, but... It is what it is.

I am hoping for the DTC soon then. 

[Falconeer]

5 hours ago, Hobel said:

99-100% of the current servers have the option off, so at the moment you can use  DICE and Edit the CMD lua without any problems.

You only need  to restart the game after a server change.
and as BN said a tweak is on the way.

Which is even more annoying, since DCS is not the fastest game to start up

 

When i get home from work, i want to relax and fly. I don't want to constantly restart the game 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Falconeer