Phoenix basics

[LowGlow]

I just started to play around with the Tomcat in BVR. I am yet struggling with a very bad BVR hit ratio with the Phoenix missile, only about 20 percent or so even with dumb drones. Can someone share some hints on effective use of the Phoenix, e.g. typical firing range window, altitude difference to target, speed, angle, ... ? Something else noteworthy to know?

[DD_Fenrir]

So many variables!

Let’s start with what you’re targeting; are you taking on fighters or bomber/transport types?

[Spurts]

Get high, 40k plus.  Center the T and keep the nose level.  Don't shoot between 20 and 30nm.  90nm can work for fast bombers head-on, wouldn't do more than 50nm against a fighter.

30-50nm against a fighter could still result in them dodging.

[Gibo]

One of the many variables that you have to consider is the height of the target; the Phoenix range is highly affected by launch altitude and the target altitude (low altitude means thicker air so more drag and the Phoenix is very susceptible to drag because is a big missile). The golden rule to be used is determine the effective range multiplying target height for 1,5 ; so if the target is at 10.000 ft the effective range is 15 nm if the target is at 35.000 ft the effective range is 52,5 nm.  

[The_Tau]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:53 AM, Gibo said:

The golden rule to be used is determine the effective range multiplying target height for 1,5 ; so if the target is at 10.000 ft the effective range is 15 nm if the target is at 35.000 ft the effective range is 52,5 nm.  

Did you got that number from some F14 crew memoirs or your personal experience?

 

Also Sparrows love more speed and phoenix more altitude

Edited November 16, 2022 by The_Tau

[Gibo]

It is reported in one of the thread regarding the Phoenix but I do not remember which one and I also heard that in one ex pilot interview 

[LowGlow]

A load of useful info, thanks guys!

What I didn't get though, why avoiding the 20-30nm range window?

[Spurts]

This is based partially on what an old pilot says, but the gist is that inside 30nm the range is too short for it to loft properly but inside 20nm it is either a massive Sparrow or pitbull within a few seconds of launch.

[The_Tau]

Also in that range bandit is more likely to start defense manouvers and TWS can lose track and at 20 nm and less you should use STT

[LowGlow]

Got it. And yeah, after some more tests with your hints, I get a substantially higher hit ratio. Seems like the Phoenix really wants height, whereas an AMRAAM especially wants speed.

BTW I couldn't fire the Sparrow when entering medium/low range. I guess I have to manually tell Jester to STT the target before being able to fire the Sparrow, right?

[Spurts]

4 hours ago, LowGlow said:

BTW I couldn't fire the Sparrow when entering medium/low range. I guess I have to manually tell Jester to STT the target before being able to fire the Sparrow, right?

Correct

[RustBelt]

45 minutes ago, Spurts said:

4 hours ago, LowGlow said:

Got it. And yeah, after some more tests with your hints, I get a substantially higher hit ratio. Seems like the Phoenix really wants height, whereas an AMRAAM especially wants speed.

BTW I couldn't fire the Sparrow when entering medium/low range. I guess I have to manually tell Jester to STT the target before being able to fire the Sparrow, right?

Or switch to a Pilot mode. 

[draconus]

Sparrow can also be fired in Boresight mode as a last resort.

[The_Tau]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Sparrow can also be fired in Boresight mode as a last resort.

it uses FLOOD mode in Boresight, so you have to keep bandit near ADL crosshair

Very good to use in "dogfight" distances with ACM cover up. It shortens AIM7 launch dramatically to 1s (Have to keep bandit in HUD)null

[draconus]

29 minutes ago, The_Tau said:

Have to keep bandit in HUD

I wouldn't call -5-30° of ADL "in HUD".

[LowGlow]

OK, works for me now with the Sparrow. Thanks! I do a pilot lock on for that, the Jester way through menu is a bit awkward for me in low/medium range. I actually expected that Jester would automatically STT a target when I select the Sparrow, but OK.

[bonesvf103]

I use Vaicom Pro for that.  I see the target in the radar at that range, i tell Jester "tracksingle contact ahead" and he does it, and I shoot.

 

Now will Jester keep him locked up all the way?  that's anyone's guess.  Usually?  But often times it's best to tell him to switch to PSTT rather than PDSTT.  But with the new patch,that may have changed.

 

Now, when you have Jester lock a target, does he default to PSTT or PDSTT?

v6,

boNes

[Karon]

5 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

Now will Jester keep him locked up all the way?  that's anyone's guess.  Usually?  But often times it's best to tell him to switch to PSTT rather than PDSTT.  But with the new patch,that may have changed.

Suggestion: rather than guessing, hop into the backseat, and now you can tell precisely what is happening and if / when you are about to lose the target, so you can take action.