fixed internally PATRIOT extremely unreliable at intercepting incoming munitions

[Default774]

The PATRIOT is extremely unreliable for shooting incoming munitions such as PGMs(JSOWs) and ARMs(HARMs). The missiles often self detonate before reaching the target, or miss the target by a small margin. At closer ranges the missiles dont seem to guide at all and just go straight, obviously missing the target.

First track shows a lone patriot site attempting to intercept one(1) incoming AGM-88. The site fires a total of 9 missiles at the target, all of which miss.

The second track shows the same patriot site attempting to intercept two incoming AGM-154s. It takes the patriot site a whopping 25 missiles to intercept these two slow moving targets going perfectly straight.

Last track shows the patriot attempt to intercept two incoming mavericks. This shows the missiles self detonating inexplicably before reaching the target very well.

patrior_jsw.acmi patriot.acmi patriot_mav.acmi patriot.trk patriot_jsw.trk patriot_mav.trk

[The_Tau]

Yep can confirm. Patriot is inaccurate AND it uses HUGE amount of missiles, like 3 per target and all can miss by small margin

In comparison SA10 have flawless accuracy 

Tacview-20221202-024942-DCS-PATRIOT test.zip.acmiTacview-20221202-031545-DCS SA 10 comparison.zip.acmi

[ngreenaway]

IRL a bomb, such as a JSOW isnt a valid target and most likely wouldnt even be presented to the operator for evaluation. a single ARM should be eliminated with two interceptors.

[NineLine]

Thanks I will run this by the team.

 

[Chizh]

В 20.11.2022 в 01:39, Default774 сказал:

The PATRIOT is extremely unreliable for shooting incoming munitions such as PGMs(JSOWs) and ARMs(HARMs). The missiles often self detonate before reaching the target, or miss the target by a small margin. At closer ranges the missiles dont seem to guide at all and just go straight, obviously missing the target.

First track shows a lone patriot site attempting to intercept one(1) incoming AGM-88. The site fires a total of 9 missiles at the target, all of which miss.

The second track shows the same patriot site attempting to intercept two incoming AGM-154s. It takes the patriot site a whopping 25 missiles to intercept these two slow moving targets going perfectly straight.

Last track shows the patriot attempt to intercept two incoming mavericks. This shows the missiles self detonating inexplicably before reaching the target very well.

patrior_jsw.acmi 185.94 \u043a\u0411 · 3 загрузки patriot.acmi 70.16 \u043a\u0411 · 4 загрузки patriot_mav.acmi 105.49 \u043a\u0411 · 3 загрузки patriot.trk 264.02 \u043a\u0411 · 4 загрузки patriot_jsw.trk 396.94 \u043a\u0411 · 4 загрузки patriot_mav.trk 304.79 \u043a\u0411 · 3 загрузки

Thank you for report!

We check MIM-104 missile params and found out issue with guidance accuracy. It will be adjusted.

[NineLine]

Looks like there is an error with Patriot targeting, so I will be reporting this, thanks!

[NineLine]

This is fixed internally, and should be in the next update or following one. Thanks all.

[The_Tau]

@NineLine

While we talk about Patriot, very small addition to it

small misspell

Edited December 7, 2022 by The_Tau

[Exorcet]

While on the subject of Patriot, does the missile not underperform in DCS? If I remember it has the same range ring as the SA-10, but the missile bleeds speed very quickly and generally doesn't do much better than medium range SAM's. Was this part of the fix, another bug, or is this accurate according to ED?

[ngreenaway]

the ring at which it would normally engage is quite a bit smaller than in DCS. theres a difference between firing at max range, and firing at an optimal pK range. the one currently in DCS doesnt yield an optimal pK

[Exorcet]

5 hours ago, ngreenaway said:

the ring at which it would normally engage is quite a bit smaller than in DCS. theres a difference between firing at max range, and firing at an optimal pK range. the one currently in DCS doesnt yield an optimal pK

I know the ring isn't optimal range, but I was thinking if two rings were about the same size the missiles should perform similarly. If the Patriot is smaller in DCS though, I'm not even remembering the size correctly.

[NineLine]

Check out the Patriot once the changes are in (probably not making this next patch) then if there are still concerns we can take another look. Thanks.

[ngreenaway]

Bummer, that was the primary thing I was looking forward to in this patch

[NineLine]

2 minutes ago, ngreenaway said:

Bummer, that was the primary thing I was looking forward to in this patch

Me too, but just missed the cut off

[ngreenaway]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:14 AM, NineLine said:

Me too, but just missed the cut off

did the fixes make it into todays hotfix?

[Default774]

1 minute ago, ngreenaway said:

did the fixes make it into todays hotfix?

Doesnt seem like it. Replaying tracks, the performance is just as poor as before.

[ngreenaway]

bummer, i was hoping it would be an undocumented fix

[Flappie]

3 hours ago, ngreenaway said:

did the fixes make it into todays hotfix?

No, it didn't.

[Flappie]

The fix is in current OB.

I tried tracks in OP: Patriot sites have gained some efficiency. 5 missiles to hit an AGM-88 (9 before). 14 missiles to hit two AGM-65 (25 before).

[ngreenaway]

52 minutes ago, Flappie said:

The fix is in current OB.

I tried tracks in OP: Patriot sites have gained some efficiency. 5 missiles to hit an AGM-88 (9 before). 14 missiles to hit two AGM-65 (25 before).

still not right. if you decrease engagement range down by 1/3 - 1/2 , what kind of numbers do you get, because it seems to be engaging targets too far out

 

[NineLine]

Please include tracks if you are still seeing issues, I saw similar performance to SA-10. 

[The_Tau]

They use a lot of missiles, but they work

IDK, why they ignored low flying F15s... Its AESA radar isnt it? It should see everything in the same time?

Tacview-20230125-211611-DCS-PATRIOT test.zip.acmiPATRIOT test.miz