Elunnia Posted November 30, 2022 Posted November 30, 2022 No issue at all in VR. You can see the hud and all its information displayed. It's a 2D issue I suppose.
Katmandu Posted November 30, 2022 Author Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Elunnia said: No issue at all in VR. You can see the hud and all its information displayed. It's a 2D issue I suppose. Is that from the default seating position or with the virtual head moved back to the headrest (with LCtrl+LShift+Numpad/ )?
Deano87 Posted November 30, 2022 Posted November 30, 2022 Yes in VR the F-15C HUD is fine when you put your head in a sensible location - Couple of inches off the headrest. The problem your having is that your effective FOV through the HUD is much smaller when viewing with only one eye/camera. One must remember that the F-15C HUD is relatively old/basic compared to all the other aircraft your comparing it to, and its MUCH smaller, so has a much smaller eyebox where both eyes have to be to see the whole HUD projection. When looking through it with two eyes you have significantly more horizontal FOV through the HUD, this just isn't possible on a screen so the default position is moved forward as a compromise to give you more HUD FOV. Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
Nahen Posted November 30, 2022 Posted November 30, 2022 In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away. If you set yourself in a "reasonable place" in the cockpit and don't mess around with any unnecessary adjustments then you always see the HUD of the same size in the same place. As long as you can see the "mirror" of HUD. And it's the same in reality (I base it on the experience with the MiG-21 HUD - basically the HUD "gunsight"), the size does not change, nothing "goes out" of the mirror, etc. The HUD is always in the center of the mirror. In fact, whether you move your head closer or away from the cockpit, you see everything the same.
Deano87 Posted November 30, 2022 Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nahen said: In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away. If you set yourself in a "reasonable place" in the cockpit and don't mess around with any unnecessary adjustments then you always see the HUD of the same size in the same place. As long as you can see the "mirror" of HUD. And it's the same in reality (I base it on the experience with the MiG-21 HUD - basically the HUD "gunsight"), the size does not change, nothing "goes out" of the mirror, etc. The HUD is always in the center of the mirror. In fact, whether you move your head closer or away from the cockpit, you see everything the same. I think its obvious what the OP is talking about is the size/shape of the HUD glass, obviously the HUD symbology itself stays the same size no matter what you do with your head position. But the piece of glass that the HUD is reflecting off changes in size depending on your head position, that is the issue here for non-VR users if they put their head in a realistic position. The same thing happens with the A-10 to some degree. Edited November 30, 2022 by Deano87 Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
draconus Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Deano87 said: that is the issue here for non-VR users if they put their head in a realistic position Non-issue, simulation starts with correct postion, then @Katmandu moves it back manually, voiding the calibration. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Katmandu Posted December 1, 2022 Author Posted December 1, 2022 19 hours ago, Deano87 said: Yes in VR the F-15C HUD is fine when you put your head in a sensible location - Couple of inches off the headrest. 16 hours ago, Nahen said: In VR it's OK as long as you don't mess around with moving the point of view away. Not as concrete as I would've liked ("in VR, virtual head moved full back, I can/can't see both vertical bars of the HUD together with the speed and alt numbers" would have been clearer), but ok (maybe?? ). Question (sort of) answered - thanks! 19 hours ago, Deano87 said: One must remember that the F-15C HUD is relatively old/basic compared to all the other aircraft your comparing it to, and its MUCH smaller, so has a much smaller eyebox where both eyes have to be to see the whole HUD projection. Good point about the age difference, could be one explaining factor on the difference in design compared to the HUDs of the F-16, Su-27 etc. Although "MUCH smaller HUD" needs a reference. Would be a good second reason for the difference if true 7 hours ago, draconus said: simulation starts with correct postion, then @Katmandu moves it back manually, voiding the calibration. Needs reference also. No source=no knowledge
Deano87 Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Katmandu said: Needs reference also. No source=no knowledge To be clear, The position of the viewpoint in 2D is "correct" only in as far as it allows you to see all of the HUD. Its not a realistic position for the pilot to put his head, but is a compromise that has to be made for playing on a screen. You make a choice, you either see all of the HUD and have head in a non-realistic position. Or you move the viewpoint back to a few inches in front of the headrest for a more realistic position and you don't get to see all of the HUD. Pick one. Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
Nahen Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 There is one more issue - veeeeeery rarely the pilot leans his head against the headrest of the seat. 1
draconus Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Deano87 said: Its not a realistic position for the pilot to put his head, but is a compromise that has to be made for playing on a screen. It is the most common position for the pilot. It's not a compromise for anything. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Deano87 Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, draconus said: It is the most common position for the pilot. It's not a compromise for anything. We're going to have to disagree with each other on that one. My default 2D view is at least 6 inches further forward then would normal for a pilots head position, Almost in line with the throttles when the engines are off. I'm not saying head back against the headrest is correct either, but the default 2D view is definitely (at least IMHO) moved forward for improved HUD FOV etc. Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
Hiob Posted December 1, 2022 Posted December 1, 2022 Luckily, we are allowed to adjust the camera in 6+1 degrees of freedom to our individual liking and save any position we come up with as default. "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
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