Castrating the Armored vehicles

[2win_TOWR]

hi folks.

 

I was a bit annoyed by the ability of those APC´s that fired volleys and volleys of missiles at me.

 

So i started to edit some related files, trying to figure out, what those textfiles are good for. Adding something here, removing something there and here is a first result.

 

Here is a list of what i have changed:

 

 

 

 

• removed AP-Rounds in Ka-50, its now loaded with 460 High-Explosive Rounds.
  

 

 

• improved penetrating Power of "Vikhr" and "TOW", it´s now only one needed to kill a heavy Tank. (because that´s what they designed for)
  

 

modified performance of various Ground Units, which are following:

 

 

• IFV´s like "Bradley" have now 2 TOW Missiles ready to fire and 5 in storage.
  

 

• Reload time of missiles in reserve depends on the skill level of the Unit and is between 90 sec. and 5 Min. That means, no Missile-Spamming anymore. Same goes for other armored vehicles equipped with ATGM, but with different storage.
  

 

• Attack range of those vehicles has been changed also. Basically the Range of detection and attack seem´s to be depending of the skill level of those units.
  

 

• For example:
  

"Average" will detect and attack you with missiles at 2100 m,

"Excellent" will detect and attack you at around 2900 m

 

 

• Bmp IFV´s uses Laser-Range-Finder in RL, so you will hear from them now. Same goes for the Shilka and the Tunguska, they can also be equipped with Range-Finders. (at least my result of research)
  

 

• MANPADS have now 1 Missile ready to fire and 2 in reserve. Reaction time and reload-time has been extended. (Seems to me quite unrealistic, when they fire their missiles right in your face.) Now they´ll wait sometimes, until you´re beside them or alredy over them, before they start to shoot. So, using Flares preventiv is recommended.
  

 

 

 

There are some more little modifications, such as a tiny lower accuracy of automatic guns and a little increase of their range.

 

But now, the weekend is over, and my free time goes with it. :cry:

 

Because of this, please test this little Mod, build some Missions and compare before and after. Tell me if you find some issues.

 

 

 

Installation as usual , with Modman.

 

 

cheers,

:beer:

Edited January 24, 2009 by 2win_TOWR

[2win_TOWR]

anyone tried it yet?

[GGTharos]

Good job, however modifying ATGM power is wrong.

 

Also, Tunguska and Shilka primarily use radio rangefinder.

[BaD CrC]

Hopefully, this tweaks will come with an upcoming patch. I'm sure ED guys are already working on it.

[159th_Viper]

How would this effect the Player in a Multiplayer environment? Would the Mod need to be loaded on the server machine as well?

[Mad Dog 7.62]

anyone tried it yet?

 

I have it installed, but haven't had time to try it yet. Is there a edit I can make to change the ammo back to the way it was if I decide to go back to AP ammo?

[2win_TOWR]

How would this effect the Player in a Multiplayer environment? Would the Mod need to be loaded on the server machine as well?

 

Like all other gameplay tweaks, all players should run this. (Or no one)

 

Is there a edit I can make to change the ammo back to the way it was if I decide to go back to AP ammo?

 

I will upload a new modman file, were you have both ammunition types again, but with the real life values for the both types, which are not accurate by default.

 

 

As for the Vikhr: i dont see the point why the missile should not be able to destroy an Abrams with a direct Hit, even more if you hit the rear or side.

Recent models of the Shilka or Tunguska using quite likely Laser-range finders to adjust their guns.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

Sounds good. I like the ability to get kills on Abrams with 1 missle, and not getting barraged by TOW missles from 1 Bradley.....looking forward to the file with the corrected 30mm ammo. What will be different in the values from the original files?

MD

[DiabloSP]

I also think 1-hit-1-kill on Abrams is a bit too much. In fact, it has been said that even multiple hits in the front (4+) won't kill it. I know it's a consequence of the limited damage model, but 2 hits is a nice compromise for the time being.

 

I like the changes to the reload times and missile reload numbers, though. I would even go so far as to give only 1 reload to the Manpads. They are not that common in some armies (Georgia, Insurgents?), as to give 3 to each unit. But that's just an opinion :)

[Feuerfalke]

As Anti-Tank missiles were designed to penetrate armor, an MBT is designed to protect against penetrators. So, the calculation is not THAT easy. I agree, though, that with the limited damage-modell, it's more realistic that such an attack would definitely have an effect on the Abarms, causing damage or immobility, wounded or killed crewmen.

 

I like the idea about preventing missile spamming, though, and I hope this can be implenented into the sim. It shouldn't be to difficult to have a very limited supply for a simple AntiAir-Soldier, but e.g. to give access to more missiles if there is an Ammo-Truck or additional personnel around him. (Or simply set a flag with the available reloads!)

 

The loading time is also pretty good!

[MBot]

Good initiative. Though frankly I prefere to keep my game "virgin".

 

I think the reload time for the TOWs on the Bradley is even longer. I remember reading somewhere about 15 minutes, but don't quote me on that. I think additionally ground launched ATGMs would need some additional improvements to keep their effectivenes. They should be better to hit moving targets and units should preserve their few missiles better for high value targets/high threats/high PK shots.

 

Although I have no hard data, you might want to consider that the Ka-50 has the option to salvo fire two Vikhr. This might be an indicator of the destructive power of the missile (but could also be an indicator about reliability...).

Edited January 22, 2009 by MBot

[Mapi]

hi folks.

 

I was a bit annoyed by the ability of those APC´s that fired volleys and volleys of missiles at me.

 

So i started to edit some related files, trying to figure out, what those textfiles are good for. Adding something here, removing something there and here is a first result.

 

Here is a list of what i have changed:

...

 

 

 

WTG!

First find ER in: missile.lua

S_TOW_launcher = {} -- for M2 Bradley and M1134 Stryker ATGM

 

WS_TOW_launcher.max_trg_alt = 300

 

-- must be 3000 then!

[GGTharos]

As for the Vikhr: i dont see the point why the missile should not be able to destroy an Abrams with a direct Hit, even more if you hit the rear or side.

 

 

But not on a FRONTAL hit.

[crazyeddie]

The only way to kill the Abrams frontally is to drop the Vikhr into an open drivers hatch - chances on doing that - remote !

[llama]

In regard to Manpads. When I was a stinger crewman in the Army we had 6 Stingers loaded on each hummer. 2 were at the ready strapped down to a special cage in the bed of the hummer while the other 4 were in the cage. All that was required to get those out though was to drop the tailgate and pull out the "coffin". Took about 10 seconds ;) .

[JaBoG32_Prinzartus]

MHmm, such major (logcial) changes IMHO should be part of an official patch, but I would not install them as a mod.

 

I like Mods, as long as they are graphical improvements and do not really change that much game-logic. Feels like cheating to me, somehow...

[2win_TOWR]

MHmm, such major (logcial) changes IMHO should be part of an official patch, but I would not install them as a mod.

 

I like Mods, as long as they are graphical improvements and do not really change that much game-logic. Feels like cheating to me, somehow...

 

Err, i wouldn´t call it cheating, cause the only one, who´s cheating, is the AI. So, my intension was to cut a bit off their balls. And why not trying to balance it, until the first "official" patch arrives? You may call it so, if you are the only one using it on MP, but not for SP. That would be the same, as it is with LOPE, some play fair, some not.

 

But not on a FRONTAL hit.

 

Yes, i know that. Abrams frontal armor has almost an RHA equivalent of nearly 1300 mm, but even if i attack from rear or side (far less armor) , i would still need 2 missiles. As an Anti-tank chopper pilot, you would avoid it to attack the front, remember you are sitting in an a high mobil Weapon system and you can define your attack point. Given by the limtations of the groundvehicle damage model, i think the modification of those missile-settings is justified.

 

WTG!

-- must be 3000 then!

 

not necessarily, firing this missile against an target at this height would minimize their range drastically. With the limitation af the AI, they would attack you at this height with the max. range of the missile. I would call this absolutely unrealistic. So i think 300m would be a good compromise.

 

 

.....looking forward to the file with the corrected 30mm ammo. What will be different in the values from the original files?

MD

 

Original files of the 30mm HE round has a value of 72 g explosive filling, in reality its just 48.5 g. That means you would need more direct hits to kill a target like a BMP or a Bradley frontal. (assumed you are in effective range) If you attack from the side or rear you need just a few hits.

Also for the AP rounds realistic values were given.

 

In regard to Manpads. When I was a stinger crewman in the Army we had 6 Stingers loaded on each hummer. 2 were at the ready strapped down to a special cage in the bed of the hummer while the other 4 were in the cage. All that was required to get those out though was to drop the tailgate and pull out the "coffin". Took about 10 seconds ;) .

 

 

Yes, making them ready for use takes maybe some 10 sec.

I just can tell what i know from my service. I was in the Luftwaffe,(admittedly not entrusted with any defense tasks) , but some comrades, that were trained on the "Fliegerfaust 2", (or Stinger), said they had 3 Missiles ready and it took around 1 minute to be ready to fire again. Note, its not just to activate the missile, you also have to go back to your firing position and aim your target again.

 

 

I will spent some time this Weekend, playing around with this and will give you an update then.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, :beer:

[71st_Mastiff]

Err, i wouldn´t call it cheating, cause the only one, who´s cheating, is the AI. So, my intension was to cut a bit off their balls. And why not trying to balance it, until the first "official" patch arrives? You may call it so, if you are the only one using it on MP, but not for SP. That would be the same, as it is with LOPE, some play fair, some not.

 

 

 

Yes, i know that. Abrams frontal armor has almost an RHA equivalent of nearly 1300 mm, but even if i attack from rear or side (far less armor) , i would still need 2 missiles. As an Anti-tank chopper pilot, you would avoid it to attack the front, remember you are sitting in an a high mobil Weapon system and you can define your attack point. Given by the limtations of the groundvehicle damage model, i think the modification of those missile-settings is justified.

 

 

 

not necessarily, firing this missile against an target at this height would minimize their range drastically. With the limitation af the AI, they would attack you at this height with the max. range of the missile. I would call this absolutely unrealistic. So i think 300m would be a good compromise.

 

 

 

 

Original files of the 30mm HE round has a value of 72 g explosive filling, in reality its just 48.5 g. That means you would need more direct hits to kill a target like a BMP or a Bradley frontal. (assumed you are in effective range) If you attack from the side or rear you need just a few hits.

Also for the AP rounds realistic values were given.

 

 

 

 

Yes, making them ready for use takes maybe some 10 sec.

I just can tell what i know from my service. I was in the Luftwaffe,(admittedly not entrusted with any defense tasks) , but some comrades, that were trained on the "Fliegerfaust 2", (or Stinger), said they had 3 Missiles ready and it took around 1 minute to be ready to fire again. Note, its not just to activate the missile, you also have to go back to your firing position and aim your target again.

 

 

I will spent some time this Weekend, playing around with this and will give you an update then.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, :beer:

look'en fowrad to your tweek version.

[Flanker15]

On the Abrams armor, the front turret plates can stop a vikhr the hull can't, especially with the slope reduced from a high angle attack.

So a one shot kill with a vihkr at any angle would make sense, unless the pilot purposely targets the turret.

[GGTharos]

A high angle attack with a Vikhr? What?

 

If it strikes the glacis it'll be quite the glancing blow ;)

[Flanker15]

You know what I mean, the missile would come in closer to 90o than if it were fired from the same level as the tank.

Whether or not a vikhr would get though a M1A2's glacial is unknown until it happens in reality.

We do know that there are 3 more directions (2 with a much larger surface area) that a vikhr would get through and without the abilty to define armor for each bit, the overall armor level leans more to 1 hit kill.

Ofcourse since it's a mod it's purly up to you whether or not you have 1 or 2 hit kills.

[GGTharos]

Yes, I do know what you mean, and there's almost no way you're getting a vikhr at 90 deg to the glacis armor.

[2win_TOWR]

Yes, I do know what you mean, and there's almost no way you're getting a vikhr at 90 deg to the glacis armor.

 

 

REALLY????:laugh:

 

 

[GGTharos]

That's why I said ... almost no way ;)

[GreenGriffon]

Somebody's gonna be cleaning latrines for a long time after that stunt.