will it have FFB from the initial release (early or access I presume)?

[peachmonkey]

pretty much the subj.

I've gotten an FFB joystick (VPforce), and flying WWII without it became pretty boring (looking at you, Mossie, and the buggy effect of adding curve's to ffb axis).

I just really hope FFB is being worked on as it's a rather significant feature in today's day. 

[Rudel_chw]

26 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

as it's a rather significant feature in today's day. 

significant? I googled ffb marketshare and couldnt find anything, but my subjective perception is that less than 1% dcs users own a ffb joystick, so I hardly would call it significant. 

[trevoC]

i find it strange that there are not more ffb options. I had a ffb stick decades ago with multiple options. Why are there no options now. I find it strange.

[MAD-MM]

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

significant? I googled ffb marketshare and couldnt find anything, but my subjective perception is that less than 1% dcs users own a ffb joystick, so I hardly would call it significant. 

Not significant terms of sales because there is nothing to sell "new" thats true... but when i look the old tread about "what is your priamary Flight Controlls". MS Sidewinder 2 FFB Stick despite not in the pole is very often metionend by the individual users. That looks alot more then 1% of the DCS Users. Every new Prob FIghter the missing FFB thing seems to reappear. 

Even think the major part of the Prob Pilots still using FFB Joysticks

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by MAD-MM

[peachmonkey]

17 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

significant? I googled ffb marketshare and couldnt find anything, but my subjective perception is that less than 1% dcs users own a ffb joystick, so I hardly would call it significant. 

let's say the demand for it is there, however no major manufacturer is producing them at this point. With the advent of 3d printing and easier access to milling tools there is a renewed interest in this tech. One of them being VPforce. I've managed to place a pre-order with them about 8 months ago and 6 months later I've received a truly awesome product. (pic below). It's not your usual surviving Sidewinder from MS, but a fully fledged modular system with very strong motors (at max power it can hurt you lol, so there are safety features built in as well.). 

They offer 2 options: 

a) a complete product + software, fully assembled, you just need to have a top stick/handle for it, you can attach VKB, VirPIL, Winwing, Thrustmaster  stick/grips via various adapters they make

b) a kit:  2 motors, controller board + software.  You can develop your own gimbal for it.

I've gone for the complete product, hence the wait (they are as mall shop). I can tell you that once you try it you can't go back to non-ffb flight anymore. (similar to adding bass shakers to the setup, and then trying to fly without them).

If you're interested in it the main comms are done on Discord, here's the invite link:  https://discord.gg/ytny6Pdg

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by peachmonkey

[Rudel_chw]

9 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

If you're interested in it the main comms are done on Discord

It’s way out of my price range unfortunately, luckily I’m happy with my current hotas   thanks for the information anyway.

[peachmonkey]

Just now, Rudel_chw said:

It’s way out of my price range unfortunately, luckily I’m happy with my current hotas   thanks for the information anyway.

it is pricey (~$800) indeed, however I've looked at how much money I've already sunk into this hobby and suddenly that number wasn't that high anymore ..

But the experience is so unique it completely justifies the price (to me). The take-offs and landings in wwii props are a breeze since you feel the resistance of the air on the elevator and ailerons and you can fly by that feeling, the Immelmanns, loops, barrels, etc, you no longer need to look at the speedometer to carry them out, the stick will tell you when you're at the edge of the envelope, etc.. 

Let me put it this way:  it's better to have the FFB joystick than a motion platform (!)

[golani79]

Sounds interesting - which stick are you using with your base?

Are Virpil etc. fully compatible function wise? Or are there buttons / axis which wont work?

[peachmonkey]

19 minutes ago, golani79 said:

Sounds interesting - which stick are you using with your base?

Are Virpil etc. fully compatible function wise? Or are there buttons / axis which wont work?

I got the VirPil WW2 grip for it (with 10cm extension), the controller in the FFB base (called Rhino btw) recognizes all VIrPil grips, so all of the buttons, work, the VPforce application software allows you to configure buttons/mapping, etc, it's very flexible. For VKB you still need to use the 'black box' (i.e. vkb external controller) because the signaling is proprietary, you can join discord and search thru the convo's, people have been asking about it. The main creator of the unit is Walmis (look for his responses).

[golani79]

Thanks for the info - good to know!

Alas it has to wait I think - before even thinking about getting such an expensive base I´ll have to upgrade my PC first.

Edited January 23, 2023 by golani79

[trevoC]

9 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

let's say the demand for it is there, however no major manufacturer is producing them at this point. With the advent of 3d printing and easier access to milling tools there is a renewed interest in this tech. One of them being VPforce. I've managed to place a pre-order with them about 8 months ago and 6 months later I've received a truly awesome product. (pic below). It's not your usual surviving Sidewinder from MS, but a fully fledged modular system with very strong motors (at max power it can hurt you lol, so there are safety features built in as well.). 

They offer 2 options: 

a) a complete product + software, fully assembled, you just need to have a top stick/handle for it, you can attach VKB, VirPIL, Winwing, Thrustmaster  stick/grips via various adapters they make

b) a kit:  2 motors, controller board + software.  You can develop your own gimbal for it.

I've gone for the complete product, hence the wait (they are as mall shop). I can tell you that once you try it you can't go back to non-ffb flight anymore. (similar to adding bass shakers to the setup, and then trying to fly without them).

If you're interested in it the main comms are done on Discord, here's the invite link:  https://discord.gg/ytny6Pdg

 

 

Interested to know if you've heard of anyone running this with an extension?

was looking at this online but am worried that with the extension (extra leverage) it may not be enough feedback, or maybe I'd damage or wear the motors too much.

btw... my wife is about to hate you.

[peachmonkey]

12 hours ago, trevoC said:

Interested to know if you've heard of anyone running this with an extension?

was looking at this online but am worried that with the extension (extra leverage) it may not be enough feedback, or maybe I'd damage or wear the motors too much.

btw... my wife is about to hate you.

lol

it works great with the extension, I've tried it with 20cm and 10cm and there wasn't any attenuation in the FFB forces, the motors are pretty powerful, i.e. at 100% force you won't be able to move the stick at all, like it's sitting in the concrete.. Also, the gimbal itself (inside the base) has a pretty tall top section, so with only the grip attached to it it's almost like you have 10cm extension.

[Hunter Joker]

I got the VirPil WW2 grip for it (with 10cm extension), the controller in the FFB base (called Rhino btw) recognizes all VIrPil grips, so all of the buttons, work, the VPforce application software allows you to configure buttons/mapping, etc, it's very flexible. For VKB you still need to use the 'black box' (i.e. vkb external controller) because the signaling is proprietary, you can join discord and search thru the convo's, people have been asking about it. The main creator of the unit is Walmis (look for his responses).

You mean that I could use my VKB MCG Pro with 200mm extension simply attaching the VPForce to the black box? It's the only thing that at the moment hold me to place an order, cause from faq section on Discord channel I didn't understand that VKB are compatible. Thx.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Lt_Jaeger]

18 minutes ago, Hunter Joker said:

You mean that I could use my VKB MCG Pro with 200mm extension simply attaching the VPForce to the black box? It's the only thing that at the moment hold me to place an order, cause from faq section on Discord channel I didn't understand that VKB are compatible. Thx.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk
 

I just received my Rhino and I used the VKB Gunfighter with F-14 grip until now. I bought the Rhino VKB adaptor. Out of this Adaptor comes a cable which need to go into the VKB black box, where the gunfighter base used to plug in. You mount the grip and that thing will still be recognized in DCS like you used to. Additionally the Rhino Axis will show up. So yes, it works, but you need a cable from the grip adaptor to the Blackbox. 

[peachmonkey]

1 hour ago, Hunter Joker said:

You mean that I could use my VKB MCG Pro with 200mm extension simply attaching the VPForce to the black box? It's the only thing that at the moment hold me to place an order, cause from faq section on Discord channel I didn't understand that VKB are compatible. Thx.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk
 

yup, like @Lt_Jaeger said above, it will work, but you need to buy the "VKB adapter" from them, it's a 3d printed thingie that gets screwed on top of Rhino, and then you attach the VKB stick (extension, whichever grip) to the adapter. The adapter has a coax cable sticking out of it (same cable type used by VKB ecosystems), you just need to connect it to your 'blackbox' (orange box). In the end in DCS you will have 2 devices:  1) Rhino with the axis  2) VKB grip (however it's identified) so you can use all the buttons on the grip.

 

[Hunter Joker]

Guys, I'm trying to find on VKB Store (European and also USA) this adpater...but I can't.

Could some of You please post here the link (if it possible and didn't violate any rules)?

Thx.

 

[peachmonkey]

2 hours ago, Hunter Joker said:

Guys, I'm trying to find on VKB Store (European and also USA) this adpater...but I can't.

Could some of You please post here the link (if it possible and didn't violate any rules)?

Thx.

 

my apologies for not being clear, the adapter is manufactured/provided/sold by the same guy (@walmis on vpforce discord) that builds RHINO FFB bases, just indicate it to him when placing an order/pre-order.

[Hunter Joker]

Finally, my head hache passed away

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

[FlankerKiller]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:24 AM, peachmonkey said:

it is pricey (~$800) indeed, however I've looked at how much money I've already sunk into this hobby and suddenly that number wasn't that high anymore ..

But the experience is so unique it completely justifies the price (to me). The take-offs and landings in wwii props are a breeze since you feel the resistance of the air on the elevator and ailerons and you can fly by that feeling, the Immelmanns, loops, barrels, etc, you no longer need to look at the speedometer to carry them out, the stick will tell you when you're at the edge of the envelope, etc.. 

Let me put it this way:  it's better to have the FFB joystick than a motion platform (!)

Lol DCS is the most expensive "free to play" game out there. I agree the VR with full FFB stick and pedals will be the future. Maybe like ten years out. But it's coming. Still at the moment it's nich. That's one of the reasons I'm waiting until it gets a good bit more avaliable, and the kinks are ironed out. Having flow real flight simulators I completely agree, once you get used to it you can't go back. 

[trevoC]

On 3/7/2023 at 3:44 PM, FlankerKiller said:

Lol DCS is the most expensive "free to play" game out there. I agree the VR with full FFB stick and pedals will be the future. Maybe like ten years out. But it's coming. Still at the moment it's nich. That's one of the reasons I'm waiting until it gets a good bit more avaliable, and the kinks are ironed out. Having flow real flight simulators I completely agree, once you get used to it you can't go back. 

I agree 100.

ffb is essential (iRacing is my best example of this, don't have ffb in DCS as I have winwing)

I couldn't drive without ffb in iRacing... I'd literally crash going from ffb to non-ffb.

On the other hand, I found out the hard way that once the gimmick of motion platforms wear off they are actually annoying (in driving anyway) as when it jolts you left and right it induces movement in the wheel that you did not want.

I could not drive competitively with a motion platform and instead have gone with 6 shakers (one on each tire or corner of virtual car and one under seat and one on back of seat)

Other than VR itself, ffb was the biggest immersion adder. Although it didn't add more immersion than VR it arguably is more important in racing sims. Really want ffb in DCS.

[peachmonkey]

10 hours ago, trevoC said:

 Really want ffb in DCS.

you should look into a VPforce RHINO FFB then (nothing to do with Saitek/Logitech). It's pricey, if you want a complete unit it'll cost ~$800, but it's so worth it. Or the project owner (walmis on discord) can hook you up with a kit (motors + board+ software) that you can use to build your own at ~$300-400, although you do need to build your own gimbal/enclosure

https://discord.gg/FJKKDjbv

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by peachmonkey

[propeler]

On 1/22/2023 at 11:01 PM, Rudel_chw said:

is that less than 1% dcs users own a ffb joystick

I think less then 0.001%  But are there  

 

 

[FlankerKiller]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:05 AM, trevoC said:

On the other hand, I found out the hard way that once the gimmick of motion platforms wear off they are actually annoying

Hahaha, I actually just learned the hard way how annoying full motion in a flight sim can be. I was at the Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville AL on vacation. They had a full motion, and I mean full motion, F-18 simulator. I had to try it. So I asked of there were any maneuvers the wete off limits, and they said no, big mistake. After splitting two buildings doing a 270 degree role into a break that transitioned into a humpty bump the motion simulator said forget it shut down, flipped over, and left me hanging upside down for and five minutes until they could manually right it. So yeah motion can have issues. Now if you ever get to fly the simulators at Flight Safely in ATL you will get to see full motion done right. 

[slaxor]

Check this out. It's already there and I'm already flying it   https://ffbeast.github.io/

https://youtu.be/LoItIl4WB3Q?feature=shared

FFB support is must have for the aircraft!

Edited April 3 by slaxor

[JAPman]

I preferred the La-7 in IL-2/1946 and was impressed by the automatic deployment of the wing leading edge flaps with a wind noise before stalling.