Pre-order, 17th of February’23

[BIGNEWY]

11 minutes ago, Jagger303 said:

Thanks Newy for the reply,

The discount is nice however we have already seen evidence that this is not required for other teams / devs. Release a product and get paid is normally how business works no? EA is a discussion that can go back and forth for the rest of time.

Can you cancel a pre-order without contacting support? and why is this not possible to do so? just seems another hindrance to user experience

Thanks

If you have made the purchase of the pre-order contacting support is your best option regarding refunds, it is not a discussion for here. 

Pre-order / early access are optional, you do not need to participate, if you do you are supporting the dev team and it is appreciated. 

I dont want to have a back and forth here in this thread so if you need to please PM me 

thank you

[AhSoul]

Would people here genuinely prefer to wait another 2 years (or whatever) for the Eagle to be completely done and feature complete before it's made available to buy and play with?

I'm pretty sure I prefer getting it earlier, at a discount, and having features etc. get added over time.....

Edit. From the other thread I guess some people would prefer to wait.

But that's fine. Wait or don't we all have the ability to make our own choice

Quote

Want a feature complete module without the hassle of having systems change or be added - skip EA and wait.

Want to get it earlier and don't mind the change - get it in EA.

No-one is forced down either path, just pick the one you are most comfortable with......

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by AhSoul

[CowanSim]

25 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

Would people here genuinely prefer to wait another 2 years (or whatever) for the Eagle to be completely done and feature complete before it's made available to buy and play with?

I'm pretty sure I prefer getting it earlier, at a discount, and having features etc. get added over time.....

Edit. From the other thread I guess some people would prefer to wait.

But that's fine. Wait or don't we all have the ability to make our own choice

 

 

It's a catch 22 issue... It really depends on the quality a module is released into EA.

But before all this EA you had no choice but to wait... the simple good old days.

People have the ability to make decisions of there own so yeah EA was born out of peoples greed

[icebearbear]

@BIGNEWY

I support pre-orders and delays but please don't over-hype, you gave me hope but hope turned to disappointment after a few weeks, it will inevitably anger, thank you BIGNEWY.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, icebearbear said:

@BIGNEWY

I support pre-orders and delays but please don't over-hype, you gave me hope but hope turned to disappointment after a few weeks, it will inevitably anger, thank you BIGNEWY.

We appreciate the support and the patience. We have also learned that we should only release once everything is ready and the best it can be for you all to enjoy. Hopefully we can give you more news soon. 

thank you.

[Fromthedeep]

41 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

Would people here genuinely prefer to wait another 2 years (or whatever) for the Eagle to be completely done and feature complete before it's made available to buy and play with?

 

2 years? Absolutely. It wouldn't be 2 years though, it would be over 6 or even more as evidenced by all the other modules in DCS. That's not the problem. The issue is that Razbam has taken longer to release the Strike Eagle than it took McAir to make the real Strike Eagle.

[TheGuardian]

8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We appreciate the support and the patience. We have also learned that we should only release once everything is ready and the best it can be for you all to enjoy. Hopefully we can give you more news soon. 

thank you.

Glad ya'll learned something, no one wants another F-16 release. We just want updates on items we have already paid for. EA or not is not the problem. Be nice if ya'll could learn to communicate with more than "Appreciation, Hopefully and Soon."

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, TheGuardian said:

Glad ya'll learned something, no one wants another F-16 release. We just want updates on items we have already paid for. EA or not is not the problem. Be nice if ya'll could learn to communicate with more than "Appreciation, Hopefully and Soon."

We communicate when we have information to share, and when we can. 

As soon as we do have a date we will let you all know. 

thank you

[bfr]

51 minutes ago, Jagger303 said:

It's a catch 22 issue... It really depends on the quality a module is released into EA.

But before all this EA you had no choice but to wait... the simple good old days.

People have the ability to make decisions of there own so yeah EA was born out of peoples greed

Not really greed. It would be a huge challenge to finance a dev team for the time it would take with no income until the product was deemed pretty much done.  I assume at least some modules we have now simply wouldn't exist without the EA & pre-sales model.

[pete_auau]

2 hours ago, Jagger303 said:

Your choice to give Razbam money in the first place

Gone are the days of releasing content then asking people to buy it. Now it's all buy before you try lol

Can you cancel a pre-order?

so you want  to  cancel   and  later  on  re purchase  again ?

[bfr]

And unless bignewy is playing his hand very close to his chest I guess we can probably count this week out for release!

[ECTAE]

24 minutes ago, bfr said:

And unless bignewy is playing his hand very close to his chest I guess we can probably count this week out for release!

Proof?

[Hiob]

3 hours ago, Jagger303 said:

People have the ability to make decisions of there own so yeah EA was born out of peoples greed

If Electronic Arts is releasing something in EA and charge for it - I'm with you on that....

But EA for smaller companies and or niche products is more due to the funding needs imho.

In B2B it's not uncommon to pay upfront for a developement or at least in chunks after reaching certain milestones.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Hiob

[Cann0nF0dd3r]

13 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

We appreciate the support and the patience. We have also learned that we should only release once everything is ready and the best it can be for you all to enjoy. Hopefully we can give you more news soon. 

thank you.

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I think by now we understand the preorder and EA 'game'. What consumers need is a bit more industry regulation and clarity on the timeline with such business models. 

[av8orDave]

1 hour ago, Cann0nF0dd3r said:

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

Couldn’t have said it better. The line of “we never gave a release date” is a bit disingenuous given that just a few weeks prior ED was posting on their twitter that it was “coming in hot” and that “soon you’ll be flying…” Havent checked in a while but last I did, that twitter post was still there. If you found a mistake, it is what it is, but say so, and maybe provide a more clear timeline.

I’ve long said the problem isn’t early access, it’s the communications and marketing practices around the early access that frustrates people.

Anyway, thanks for the continued efforts to make a successful launch, and thanks to the moderators for dealing with our gripes.

[pete_auau]

17 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

2 years? Absolutely. It wouldn't be 2 years though, it would be over 6 or even more as evidenced by all the other modules in DCS. That's not the problem. The issue is that Razbam has taken longer to release the Strike Eagle than it took McAir to make the real Strike Eagle.

And  how  long  did  they  take  to  make  the  blue  prints   before  they  even started   building   the  strike  eagle  sure  it  was  longer  than   2  years. Just to add   in  another  sim,  a addon  took  around  7  years  to to release

Edited June 22, 2023 by pete_auau

[giullep]

3 ore fa, Cann0nF0dd3r ha scritto:

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

I think the same!!! The problem was the hype campaign for the f-15…imminent, hot, soon very soon..this mounting until a peek.. and after all this rumor…nothing to say any more……very strange system to menage a ea release..and this problem i think cant be hide. After said this…we can only wait to have news or a release date…

Edited June 22, 2023 by giullep

[thefusion]

4 hours ago, Cann0nF0dd3r said:

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

I couldn't have said it better.  I don't mind the wait; what I mind is the posts of imminent release and then waiting over and over again with very few updates.  Watching GS and longshot and many others doing almost daily posts with a nearly completely workable model is pretty hard as well.  

 

I'm just glad to have started this dialogue.  I'm happy to pay for the modules, and I will buy others as well.  I'm excited about the tornado and phantom etc, and many others. Just stop teasing us.  I know that every the viper was released 5 months after repurchase, and several others were as well; that doesn't bother me.  Don't say release imminent and then make us wait two more months, though.

 

[Goofy12]

4 hours ago, Cann0nF0dd3r said:

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

This exactly….

[BIGNEWY]

4 hours ago, Cann0nF0dd3r said:

With due respect I think you're taking the wrong message here. With regards to preorder/EA vs waiting for a full release, you're never going to make everybody happy, that's nothing new. Personally I have no issue with preorders and early access, I fully understand that there will be a wait when I hit that buy button and that the EA release will have limitations (I'm looking at you Viper!) and/or bugs. That's fine.

The issue with regards to this module is not so much that though. There were statements directly from you, ("you" being ED in general,) saying things like "Release imminent," and "Coming in hot!" Then a sudden flood of YouTube content creator videos, especially from some pretty small channels. All indications that a release is very near. Then all of the sudden there is a 2 second bit at the end of an RB video that states another two month wait. For the longest time EDs only statement was basically "We never gave a release date, we'll tell you when we're ready," and RB saying "It wasn't us." Meanwhile there was, and still is, a flood of content creator videos being posted daily on YouTube. Then a statement of "We found an issue." Ok, fine, that happens in a testing phase, nothing wrong with that. But again, even with this issue that was found, YouTube videos are being posted daily, mission runs, tutorials etc., not from RB until recently, but relatively small content creators showing the module in what looks like a pretty EA releasable state.  

I love DCS but frankly EDs responses can leave a lot to be desired. With this issue it took a couple of weeks to get a one sentence statement, and others that TBH felt like throwing a victim flag. You guys need to work on your communication when it comes to issues, simply saying "We never gave you a release date," after you, RB and the YouTube CCs gave every indication that it was ready for release isn't going to cut it. If something came up, fine, say that, get in front of it and make an actual statement. It's not so much that there was an issue, its been your response, or lack of one to said issue that has, quite frankly understandably, frustrated a lot of people. 

Thank you for your valued feedback it is appreciated and will try to take it on board for the future. 

Pre-orders can seem like a long time sometimes, we know this, and for some the hype train can be overwhelming, but we have to ensure everything is as good as it can be for early access release and still be building up excitement and letting people know about the pre-order. Pre-order is coming to an end and I am sure you will enjoy this great module once in your hands. 

best regards

bignewy

[thefusion]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thank you for your valued feedback it is appreciated and will try to take it on board for the future. 

Pre-orders can seem like a long time sometimes, we know this, and for some the hype train can be overwhelming, but we have to ensure everything is as good as it can be for early access release and still be building up excitement and letting people know about the pre-order. Pre-order is coming to an end and I am sure you will enjoy this great module once in your hands. 

best regards

bignewy

Fair enough.  I can't ask for anything more than that.  Please just stop sending us mixed messages.  Take as long as you need to get the module right. That's fine.

[stonewall197922]

52 минуты назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

Thank you for your valued feedback it is appreciated and will try to take it on board for the future. 

Pre-orders can seem like a long time sometimes, we know this, and for some the hype train can be overwhelming, but we have to ensure everything is as good as it can be for early access release and still be building up excitement and letting people know about the pre-order. Pre-order is coming to an end and I am sure you will enjoy this great module once in your hands. 

best regards

bignewy

I`m ok with marketing but giving product to some "Yotubers", taking in account that many people payed money for the  preorder is a bit unfair. I think there will be no questions if those videos were released by ED or RB itself. 

[bfr]

1 hour ago, stonewall197922 said:

I`m ok with marketing but giving product to some "Yotubers", taking in account that many people payed money for the  preorder is a bit unfair. I think there will be no questions if those videos were released by ED or RB itself. 

Its not as if the youtubers are just randoms that won a lottery. One of them is the guy writing the manual and no doubt they'll be doing a bit of closed beta work as it heads toward a releasable state.  And I don't doubt that 10 minutes of final video takes quite a bit longer to throw together, so its understandable that they're sharing the load around to get content out there.

[stonewall197922]

53 минуты назад, bfr сказал:

Its not as if the youtubers are just randoms that won a lottery. One of them is the guy writing the manual and no doubt they'll be doing a bit of closed beta work as it heads toward a releasable state.  And I don't doubt that 10 minutes of final video takes quite a bit longer to throw together, so its understandable that they're sharing the load around to get content out there.

As I said before, I'm ok with marketing. And if ED said that the developer needs more time to complete the work, then there is nothing to argue about. I just suggested that the videos be released by the ED, developer or team members to avoid any unwanted aquisations from buyers. 

Цитата

I was simply asking if people can cancel pre-orders but Razbam being who they are likely do not allow such a thing

I`m in doubt that there is any country with laws that prohibits return money for a product which is not being delivered.

Edited June 22, 2023 by stonewall197922