Need motivation to finish mission 15, called "Groundhog Day" (by me)

[Jayhawk1971]

Despite being a very immersive and fun mission in general, for me this mission has been really, really unlucky so far. I had to restart it so often I feel like Phil Connors by now.

• First restart due to the still not fixed Tomcat AI glitch that damages the player aircraft on spawn, restarted to see whether that was just a one-time glitch (AI listened to that Queen song too often - Spread your Wings)
•  Next one is a spoiler:
• Spoiler

  • I was shot down by second Fishcan due to my flight lead being useless.  ("I'm out of fox 2, come and help me")
  • After several tries, I've found it's critical that the first Sidewinder does not miss, and even if you get the first "MiG", that going into a rate fight with the second magic AI J-7 with all that crap hanging on my place is not a good tactic. I went around in circles with the J-7 neatly in the "assessment window", but never could pull enough lead to drag it into the HUD. In the end it splashed into the Pacific ocean and I could proceed. 
• Once more unto the breach, result: see above (again, spoiler warning)
• Another try, and just when our flight was pushing (after 15 minutes of doing what Dos Gringos sang about in their "Thunderbirds" song), a higher entity required me to do a last-minute supermarket run, because said higher entity forgot to buy milk and couldn't be arsed to go again itself. 
• This time, the crew of Cat 3 either was on their cigarette break, or on strike. In any case, they were hanging around behind Cat 4 and refused to hook up Paco. That turned out to apparently have been a one-time glitch, cause it didn't happen again (so far!)

• Finally, I made it to Guam, but missed the text message to trigger the "5 mile warning" (), which I only noticed after I popped, which seemed to mess up the script (well....duh! ). Also, on my coal-powered, ancient PC in VR, Andersen was a slideshow, which makes it hard to do anything requiring precision.

Can someone please provide some motivation for me to try....again. Again means: doing a repair after AI smashes its wing against me, do the startup, fly to RP, go around in a steep fingertip formation bank for 10 minutes (by now I deliberately take my time to join up, to reduce circling time), then passing the first "barrier" (will not mention because spoilers). And does developing a slight twitch around my left eye mean anything? 

[/rant]

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Jayhawk1971

[Reflected]

AI Tomcats are super annoying on the SuperCarrier. The wing spread issue has been on forever, they randomly don’t launch, get stuck, etc….

it’s best to stay behind the jbd intil cat 3 is launched in order not to confuse the ai  

but: you can go on without a repair, it doesn’t matter. 
usually in most missions you can just go to another cat and launch. I designed the mission that way because I never trust the AI to do even simple tasks. 
 

drop your tanks before you engage those Fishcans. 
 

on screen messages are always important and require immediate attention (helps the inattentive player not mess up the mission, but sometimes they backfire)

 

good luck!

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Reflected

[Jayhawk1971]

Ok, I'll try again. 

[Roosterfeet]

Yep, AI Paco really let me down here. Also, the 9M is pretty useless for face shots so that just compounds the situation. I smell a headache ahead in 15.

[Reflected]

1 hour ago, Roosterfeet said:

Yep, AI Paco really let me down here. Also, the 9M is pretty useless for face shots so that just compounds the situation. I smell a headache ahead in 15.

Well, I've got complaints about run 2 of mission 7 being hard, when Paco simulates not to be able to kill the bandit and asks Slick to come and help.

Better figure that one out, because here you go, in mission 15 it's the same situation, except for live missiles and no 'restart task'

[Lt_Jaeger]

Will there be a data link to assist? 

 

Just did mission 7 and the hardest part was to find the second bad guy.

That dud(e) in the back wasn't very helpful, and flying in VR (I refuse to turn labels or dots on) means you are kind of blind close in. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lt_Jaeger

[Reflected]

53 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Will there be a data link to assist? 

 

Just did mission 7 and the hardest part was to find the second bad guy.

That dud(é) in the back wasn't very helpful and flying in VR (I refuse to turn labels or dots on) means you are kind of blind close in. 

Nope no data link for this training exercise.

[Lt_Jaeger]

7 minutes ago, Reflected said:

Nope no data link for this training exercise.

No, I meant for the actual missions ...just want to peak ahead.

 

Youtube is currently doing its thing with the Mission 7 playthrough, so I'm painful aware that there is no link in that mission.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lt_Jaeger

[Reflected]

4 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

No, I meant for the actual missions ...just want to peak ahead.

 

Youtube is currently doing its thing with the Mission 7 playthrough, so I'm painful aware that there is no link in that mission.

 

 

Ah yes, there is Data link on deployment.

[Jayhawk1971]

Finally! I broke the cycle! I've completed the mission! 

And it took only two more tries, because of course (!) I accidentally clicked the emergency gear thingy while checking the refueling probe and had to start over. 

But then I made it. The second Fishcan is still somewhat of a challenge with all the bombs hanging on my jet, but I yo-yo'd behind it and got it with Fox-2.

After that, the mission went well, did my A2G thing well, and made it back to the boat, albeit a little low on fuel (I chose "B - hell yeah" from the F10 menu).

The only "downside" was the still really bad framerates over Guam, at least in VR, but that is an optimization issue. Of course, had the Admiral considered my plan, to Napalm the whole island ahead of the strike, there wouldn't have been any trees left that cause low frames. But noooo,  he lectured me about the "ecological footprint" or something. Pffft. 

 

[Reflected]

Nice, congrats! Yeah, weird, FPS over Guam has been getting worse lately, I'd have thought ED is optimizing it. There aren't many objects and units in the mission, it's mainly those villas with the laundry hanging on a line and whatnot.

Now for the grand finale in mission 16!

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Reflected:

Now for the grand finale in mission 16!

I'm still debating on whether I'll wait for the patch next week, with the reshuffled AI, for part A of mission 16, or skip directly to part B. But I'll probably wait, as I won't want to miss out on the immersion.

I'm big on immersion, hence why I was crazy enough to fly all the way to where San Bernardino would be if we'd have a hi-rez part of Southern California, before moving ahead to the second part of the Case I carrier qual mission.  

[Reflected]

wow, that's commitment right there Yeah, better wait for the patch then. Is it coming next week?

[Jayhawk1971]

I believe next Wednesday (March 1st), but, of course, that may be "subject to change".  

[Roosterfeet]

Ugh. The north bandit ignores Paco and comes after me straight away. In multiple attempts, I have no trouble killing the south bandit but the north bandit's missile usually hits me as soon as my sidewinder is connecting with the south bandit. Any advice?

[Reflected]

1 hour ago, Roosterfeet said:

Ugh. The north bandit ignores Paco and comes after me straight away. In multiple attempts, I have no trouble killing the south bandit but the north bandit's missile usually hits me as soon as my sidewinder is connecting with the south bandit. Any advice?

The training also emphasized that you can't 'expect' the bandits to behave in a certain way, there will always be unexpected factors. Like both of them going against the same target - You. You just gotta be fast killing the first bandit and keep a good SA, always know where the other one is. They only have sh*tty heaters, they shouldn't be too hard to defeat if you have good SA. Also, make sure you jettison your drop tanks before the merge, your Tomcat is already heavy with all those bombs.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Reflected

[JupiterJoe]

Apropos of nothing, but what a campaign.  Wow!  

null

Edited February 25, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[Lt_Jaeger]

Paco's ears must be ringing. I found some very graphic words in different languages for him, sitting there and looking at me how I did burn all my fuel to get that stupid MIG. At the end I could not make it back, mostly due to that second tasking. All my objections went unheared. 

Would have been tight otherwise as well. 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Lt_Jaeger

[Dentedend10]

What happened to me was after Paco assigned the bandits on the merge with the two Fishcans, Chig locks up the south bandit. I am going for the south bandit thinking that Paco is taking the north bandit. I believe Paco even calls out a Fox 2 at the north bandit, which made me follow through with chasing my assigned bandit. However, the north bandit - Paco's bandit - fires the missile at me and that got me.

I understand that bandits can be unpredictable and any bandit can come after me. What confused is that Paco called the Fox 2 on his bandit, yet when I look at the Tacview he never fired one. And that allows the north bandit to come after me without any delay, before I realize that Paco did not deal with his bandit.

Is this how it is intended? I can certainly approach the merge with different strategy, just wanted to let you know that Paco did not fire the Fox 2 he calls out ( unless that Fox 2 is called out by someone else on Tac?)

 

[Reflected]

57 minutes ago, Dentedend10 said:

What happened to me was after Paco assigned the bandits on the merge with the two Fishcans, Chig locks up the south bandit. I am going for the south bandit thinking that Paco is taking the north bandit. I believe Paco even calls out a Fox 2 at the north bandit, which made me follow through with chasing my assigned bandit. However, the north bandit - Paco's bandit - fires the missile at me and that got me.

I understand that bandits can be unpredictable and any bandit can come after me. What confused is that Paco called the Fox 2 on his bandit, yet when I look at the Tacview he never fired one. And that allows the north bandit to come after me without any delay, before I realize that Paco did not deal with his bandit.

Is this how it is intended? I can certainly approach the merge with different strategy, just wanted to let you know that Paco did not fire the Fox 2 he calls out ( unless that Fox 2 is called out by someone else on Tac?)

 

I can't make the AI shoot and miss. So Paco only 'calls' that Fox 2. Paco wanted to make the player engage both, so the story is he fires, misses, and you need to help.

Once you let the DCS AI loose, and allow it to fight, you have absolutely zero control over them.

BTW it's pretty much the same situation as at the rag during the 2nd run of the 2v2s.

I really recommend NOT using Tacview for this campaign. There are so many tricks I had to use to make sure the AI follows the storyline without breaking the mission, the Tacview won't make sense.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Reflected

[PawlaczGMD]

For real, this was the most difficult engagement in the whole campaign. I managed to get it after a few tries, but I'm convinced that the Mig-21 (and F-5) AI FM is complete nonsense. I almost think it's easier to beat Flankers or Vipers in BFM.

On paper this 2v1 should be totally doable in the Tomcat, but it is actually extremely tricky, and I had to luck out with not missing the first shot.

[Jayhawk1971]

Regarding the Fishbed/Fishcan FM: I saw a video by Sedlo on YouTube recently, where he uses some script to add additional mass to the MIG 21, to make it behave less like a UFO.

Maybe something to consider for future updates, until he Fishbed's FM gets fixed some day........in the fuuuuuture?

(relevant part starts at 4:36) 

[PawlaczGMD]

25 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Regarding the Fishbed/Fishcan FM: I saw a video by Sedlo on YouTube recently, where he uses some script to add additional mass to the MIG 21, to make it behave less like a UFO.

Maybe something to consider for future updates, until he Fishbed's FM gets fixed some day........in the fuuuuuture?

(relevant part starts at 4:36) 

Thanks, that's interesting. It would be good for someone to collect more technical evidence on the Mig-21 FM issues, and make a case for ED to nerf it. I think that the F-5 also overperforms.