missing info bomb delay still an issue

[Retnek]

Sorry, in contrast to this thread
 

imho the fuses still aren't right.

First one is easy. The German fuse 25c had a long "Vz Mode function delay" of fourteen (14) seconds, not 8.5. Since the delay is relevant for attacking in larger formations it should be corrected. Like it was done by the Germans advancing from fuse-model 15 to 25.  Please check the documents given here:
 

and here:
 

I learned in mission-editor one should use the "function delay mode" "fixed" to set the fuses, not the "variable" one.

So for fuse type "Zünder 25C" in mode "Fixed" there is given this pattern:

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 8.5 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 8.5 sec
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec
Sturz Mode ARM Delay = 80 ms
Waagerecht Mode ARM Delay  = 80 ms

"Function delay" here is the time from impact of the bomb to it's ignition. "Arm delay" is the time the fuse needs after leaving the bomb-rack to change the status from "safe" to "armed".

For the fuse-type "Zünder 25C" in mode "Variable" there is given this pattern

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 0 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 80 ms
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec
Sturz Mode ARM Delay = 80 ms
Waagerecht Mode ARM Delay  = 80 ms

Historically correct values for fuse 25 for an (extended) table should be (sources see above and below)

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 0 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 80 milliseconds
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 14 sec
Sturz Mode OV ARM Delay = 3 to 6 sec
Sturz Mode MV ARM Delay = 5 to 10 sec
Waagerecht OV ARM Delay  = 3 to 6 sec
Waagerecht MV ARM Delay  = 0.7 to 1.6 sec

For the time-to-arm this table gives detailed numbers:

I know the fuses are still work in progress. Your way displaying the values in a "variable" and a "fixed" mode will add to confusion, too. Whatever I try - I'm not able to find a way to prepare my Anton via the mission editor to drop bombs historically correct using the mainly used fuse-type 25.

Add-on 15.03.23:

Here's the most detailed documentry about German bomb, fuses etc - always worth a look for British and US-documents and procedures, too. Sorry, in German only and a somewhat strange HTML-setup ...

http://michaelhiske.de/

German fuses:
http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe/Zündervorschriften/StartSeite.htm
Zünder 25 f.e. = 152/8 & 152/22 & 152/27
 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Retnek
typo and content

[peachmonkey]

one thing I don't quite understand is the purpose of:    Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode)

- Where is this actually being used?

- How does one select it when variable setting is used?  Is this even simulated?

null

[MrExplosion]

2 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

one thing I don't quite understand is the purpose of:    Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode)

- Where is this actually being used?

- How does one select it when variable setting is used?  Is this even simulated?

null

In general you would use m.V. setting whenever you dont want the bomb to detonate directly upon impact but a little bit later. For example a SC 50 with Zünder 15 in m.V. would detonate 0,05 seconds after impact on a 4-story building making it detonate in the basement rendering the whole building unusable.

Edited March 14, 2023 by MrExplosion

[peachmonkey]

27 minutes ago, MrExplosion said:

In general you would use m.V. setting whenever you dont want the bomb to detonate directly upon impact but a little bit later. For example a SC 50 with Zünder 15 in m.V. would detonate 0,05 seconds after impact on a 4-story building making it detonate in the basement rendering the whole building unusable.

 

yes, I understand the oV and mV function delays, those are clearly selectable in the cockpit using the bomb switch panel.

But setting the Vz mode (i.e. Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec) isn't anywhere to be found.   I wonder if it were a mode that could only be set by the ground mechanics team.

[MrExplosion]

3 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

yes, I understand the oV and mV function delays, those are clearly selectable in the cockpit using the bomb switch panel.

But setting the Vz mode (i.e. Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec) isn't anywhere to be found.   I wonder if it were a mode that could only be set by the ground mechanics team.

Sorry, misunderstood your initial question.

Main difference between mV and Vz:

mV is designed to detonate the bomb really shortly after impact - basically while it is still in motion (up to 0.5 seconds of delay) and Vz is used for a longer delay of 20 seconds or longer.

These are the basic definitions. I am not familiar with all the details involved tho. If you want to know more you can read the original documentation here: http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luft/Luft/LDV_4200/SERIE_1/Blatt_04_1943.HTM

[peachmonkey]

20 minutes ago, MrExplosion said:

Sorry, misunderstood your initial question.

Main difference between mV and Vz:

mV is designed to detonate the bomb really shortly after impact - basically while it is still in motion (up to 0.5 seconds of delay) and Vz is used for a longer delay of 20 seconds or longer.

These are the basic definitions. I am not familiar with all the details involved tho. If you want to know more you can read the original documentation here: http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luft/Luft/LDV_4200/SERIE_1/Blatt_04_1943.HTM

thank you for the link to the document, I'll need to translate to get a better understanding of the systems.

So, would you know how we can use the Vz delay in DCS A8?

[KoN]

is the Delay fuse working ?? I've set mine to right side and the bomb has gone off maybe 1 second after . 

Edited June 16, 2023 by KoN

[razo+r]

What fuze have you selected for your bomb in the rearming menu?

9 minutes ago, KoN said:

is the Delay fuse working ?? I've set mine to right side and the bomb has gone off maybe 1 second after . 

 

 

[KoN]

20 hours ago, razo+r said:

What fuze have you selected for your bomb in the rearming menu?

 

500ib SC 

[razo+r]

11 hours ago, KoN said:

500ib SC 

The type of fuze, not the bomb. You can check the fuze by clicking on the orange triangle. 

Also, what exact settings did you chose on the bomb armament panel? The "right" side has two options, which one did you use? 

Otherwise supply a short track. 

[NineLine]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:31 AM, peachmonkey said:

yes, I understand the oV and mV function delays, those are clearly selectable in the cockpit using the bomb switch panel.

But setting the Vz mode (i.e. Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec) isn't anywhere to be found.   I wonder if it were a mode that could only be set by the ground mechanics team.

Exactly, its basically wired at the bomb, and the cockpit setting won't matter. It will have one delay. 

On 3/13/2023 at 5:32 PM, Retnek said:

Sorry, in contrast to this thread
 

imho the fuses still aren't right.

First one is easy. The German fuse 25c had a long "Vz Mode function delay" of fourteen (14) seconds, not 8.5. Since the delay is relevant for attacking in larger formations it should be corrected. Like it was done by the Germans advancing from fuse-model 15 to 25.  Please check the documents given here:
 

and here:
 

I learned in mission-editor one should use the "function delay mode" "fixed" to set the fuses, not the "variable" one.

So for fuse type "Zünder 25C" in mode "Fixed" there is given this pattern:

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 8.5 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 8.5 sec
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec
Sturz Mode ARM Delay = 80 ms
Waagerecht Mode ARM Delay  = 80 ms

"Function delay" here is the time from impact of the bomb to it's ignition. "Arm delay" is the time the fuse needs after leaving the bomb-rack to change the status from "safe" to "armed".

For the fuse-type "Zünder 25C" in mode "Variable" there is given this pattern

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 0 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 80 ms
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 8.5 sec
Sturz Mode ARM Delay = 80 ms
Waagerecht Mode ARM Delay  = 80 ms

Historically correct values for fuse 25 for an (extended) table should be (sources see above and below)

oV Mode Function Delay (oV = no delay) = 0 sec
mV Mode Function Delay (mV = with delay) = 80 milliseconds
Vz Mode Function Delay  (Vz = retarded mode) = 14 sec
Sturz Mode OV ARM Delay = 3 to 6 sec
Sturz Mode MV ARM Delay = 5 to 10 sec
Waagerecht OV ARM Delay  = 3 to 6 sec
Waagerecht MV ARM Delay  = 0.7 to 1.6 sec

For the time-to-arm this table gives detailed numbers:

I know the fuses are still work in progress. Your way displaying the values in a "variable" and a "fixed" mode will add to confusion, too. Whatever I try - I'm not able to find a way to prepare my Anton via the mission editor to drop bombs historically correct using the mainly used fuse-type 25.

Add-on 15.03.23:

Here's the most detailed documentry about German bomb, fuses etc - always worth a look for British and US-documents and procedures, too. Sorry, in German only and a somewhat strange HTML-setup ...

http://michaelhiske.de/

German fuses:
http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe/Zündervorschriften/StartSeite.htm
Zünder 25 f.e. = 152/8 & 152/22 & 152/27
 

 

I will try and review, but we have many sources and we were pretty happy with the choices we made. 

[KoN]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:28 PM, razo+r said:

The type of fuze, not the bomb. You can check the fuze by clicking on the orange triangle. 

Also, what exact settings did you chose on the bomb armament panel? The "right" side has two options, which one did you use? 

Otherwise supply a short track. 

oh i see didn't know there was a orange tringle fuse settings now i understand thank you . 

[Retnek]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:03 PM, NineLine said:

Exactly, its basically wired at the bomb, and the cockpit setting won't matter. It will have one delay. 

I will try and review, but we have many sources and we were pretty happy with the choices we made. 

Imho it'll be fine if you offer the choices the pilots had in flight, too. The present solution is definitely better than it has been. That vague option "Function delay mode" just for some types of fuses is quite confusing. Maybe all I need is more distinct presentation of the options and/or another wording - suitable for a non-native speaker.

[NineLine]

I'm not sure what you mean. If you use the variable option, you have different options in the cockpit based on the switch setting in the cockpit. If you select fixed, you get a longer delay but at the cost of the settings in the cockpit. This is absolutely realistic. 

[KoN]

I think the delay fusing is broken again  . I've set 7.5 delay only for it to go off straight away . tried another delay same results . only one i got working is 3min delay 500kg J . 190

[NineLine]

Please include a track. Thanks