Dynamic Foveated Rendering: Time to go to an Aero, or wait for next gen?

[Voyager]

15 hours ago, GunSlingerOZ said:

Why are you asking about SteamVR and OpenXR? Will that lower GPU bottlenecks?

There is a tool called fpsVR that shows you, among other things, your GPU and CPU frame times. It is excellent for debugging VR performance problems, and has both a live display and logging. The catch is, it is a SteamVR app, so you need to have Steam VR running to use it. 

[ackattacker]

12 hours ago, Voyager said:

There is a tool called fpsVR that shows you, among other things, your GPU and CPU frame times. It is excellent for debugging VR performance problems, and has both a live display and logging. The catch is, it is a SteamVR app, so you need to have Steam VR running to use it. 

OpenXR toolkit will also show you cpu and gpu frametimes, and has logging.

[Rodeo]

On 4/9/2023 at 7:57 PM, dburne said:

 

I tend to be hesitant these days in singing praises too loudly for a particular device, especially one as expensive as the Aero. I will say this from my experience - coming from Rift, Rift S, Index, Reverb G2, and Vive Pro 2. The Aero especially with now it's Dynamic Foveated Rendering with eye tracking in DCS blows them all away - by far. IMHO of course. The performance I am getting now with my Aero in DCS would have been unheard of a couple of months ago. And most of my gaming is in DCS.

I do have some bias though - I will never spend a dime on anything Pimax. I have loathed them from the start in how they market their products and how they never seem to deliver what all they promise and certainly never in the time frame they promise. So in my case when considering headsets, Pimax will never be on my list. I do give them credit for still being in the run though, the more that are the better for VR overall.

Glad to hear your opinion. Last year I went with Pimax 8kx because of the backorder time the Aero (which was my first choice) was suffering and Pimax’s trade-in program for future 12kx. After a year of frustrations with Pimax I am done with them and ordering an Aero now after hearing everyone’s opinions over the last few weeks of the great improvements.

The Pimax worked well for a month or two but I saw a slow degradation in a variety of features and performance. Now I have to run on 9 axis instead of Lighthouse because the headset is not recognizing the base stations. Support sucks and have no idea what’s happening. I have zero faith in any of their future products and quality control; a gamble I’m not comfortable making.

Please correct me if I am wrong but barring a major breakthrough at ED I feel that, given the improvements Aero users are reporting, the Aero may be a headset that will last a very longtime and a worthy investment for DCS. Next Gen headsets will have all sort of cool features but without ED supporting new VR advancements we would be spending our dollars on products that will not work as advertised and will cause frustrations and scorns with ED. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Rodeo

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Rodeo said:

Glad to hear your opinion. Last year I went with Pimax 8kx because of the backorder time the Aero (which was my first choice) was suffering and Pimax’s trade-in program for future 12kx. After a year of frustrations with Pimax I am done with them and ordering an Aero now after hearing everyone’s opinions over the last few weeks of the great improvements.

The Pimax worked well for a month or two but I saw a slow degradation in a variety of features and performance. Now I have to run on 9 axis instead of Lighthouse because the headset is not recognizing the base stations. Support sucks and have no idea what’s happening. I have zero faith in any of their future products and quality control; a gamble I’m not comfortable making.

Please correct me if I am wrong but barring a major breakthrough at ED I feel that, given the improvements Aero users are reporting, the Aero may be a headset that will last a very longtime and a worthy investment for DCS. Next Gen headsets will have all sort of cool features but without ED supporting new VR advancements we would be spending our dollars on products that will not work as advertised and will cause frustrations and scorns with ED. 

 

 

Yeah I at least do not see me upgrading my headset for some time yet. Been running the Aero well over a year and still loving it. Then when DCS add Multi Threading , Open XR support that was a game changer for sure for the better. And then Dynamic Foveated Rendering with eye tracking came along just for the Aero and really made it shine.  However it is a lot of money for a VR headset, especially if one also has to get the trackers, so I always like to mention that. Whether it is worth the cost would be very much up to the individual.

[Rodeo]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah I at least do not see me upgrading my headset for some time yet. Been running the Aero well over a year and still loving it. Then when DCS add Multi Threading , Open XR support that was a game changer for sure for the better. And then Dynamic Foveated Rendering with eye tracking came along just for the Aero and really made it shine.  However it is a lot of money for a VR headset, especially if one also has to get the trackers, so I always like to mention that. Whether it is worth the cost would be very much up to the individual.

Agreed the expense is great but all my past hobbies this one is a little less expensive … I greatly enjoy flying in VR even with the Pimax so as I stated it seems that regardless of the Next Gen headsets coming to market I don’t see ED’s system keeping up with Next Gen features.  However with the planned ED improvements and what performance increase we have already seen I think the Aero will stay relevant for a long time… or at least that’s what I’m telling myself to justify this purchase 

[Nodak]

It's dirt cheap when you compare what the real deal would run you in training, fuel, and air frame costs or rentals.  Not to mention your limited to bug smashers and can forget about jet's, helicopters, and aircraft carriers or any combat environment with weaponry.   When you look at it that way investing in good kit is suddenly a real bargain when compared.

[kerlcat]

4 hours ago, Nodak said:

It's dirt cheap when you compare what the real deal would run you in training, fuel, and air frame costs or rentals.  Not to mention your limited to bug smashers and can forget about jet's, helicopters, and aircraft carriers or any combat environment with weaponry.   When you look at it that way investing in good kit is suddenly a real bargain when compared.

That‘s not a wrong statement if comparing with any simulations with real thing. But $2000+ is really beyond most of serious players' budget. 

To me, wish something about $1000 w/ pancake and 4K per eye + DP connection. Wonder who made the decision with spec of Quest Pro... the resolution is not a high end product released in 2022! hahaha.

[Nodak]

https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-kaist-revolutionize-micro-led-vr-wearables/

This is an interesting new development, Samsung may be in it in a serious way.  This has the potential for life like lighting levels and colors.  Not to mention clarity.  This and Samsung's announcement they are seriously back into it with an XR reality HMD which is getting close to the production phase.   Seems a race between them and Apple is on.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Nodak

[Rodeo]

So I think this is a relative question to the OP point on next generation versus Aero... how is Aero users' current resolution while looking at Instruments and MFDs?  I know I struggle with the Pimax 8kx with fuzziness of text prior to latest updates and currently.  

[Mars Exulte]

On 4/9/2023 at 6:57 PM, dburne said:

 

I tend to be hesitant these days in singing praises too loudly for a particular device, especially one as expensive as the Aero. I will say this from my experience - coming from Rift, Rift S, Index, Reverb G2, and Vive Pro 2. The Aero especially with now it's Dynamic Foveated Rendering with eye tracking in DCS blows them all away - by far. IMHO of course. The performance I am getting now with my Aero in DCS would have been unheard of a couple of months ago. And most of my gaming is in DCS.

 If you don't mind me asking, what kind of FPS are you getting and what approximate settings and resolution? I'm sick of my Reverb G2 being perpetually flakey and actively searching for a replacement. Varjo is top tier but it's also $2k+ cause gotta buy base stations, too (and controllers?).

 The DFR is appealing for performance and the auto adjusting IPD is nice for guests, too. Just... so damn expensive. I started with a Rift S which worked great, but image was mediocre, then Reverb which looks great but is unreliable and the tracking sucks.

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

 If you don't mind me asking, what kind of FPS are you getting and what approximate settings and resolution? I'm sick of my Reverb G2 being perpetually flakey and actively searching for a replacement. Varjo is top tier but it's also $2k+ cause gotta buy base stations, too (and controllers?).

 The DFR is appealing for performance and the auto adjusting IPD is nice for guests, too. Just... so damn expensive. I started with a Rift S which worked great, but image was mediocre, then Reverb which looks great but is unreliable and the tracking sucks.

 

I have settle in to flying with Varjo Base Vsync locked to 45 fps. Seems to give me the smoothest overall experience. Note I am not using any Motion Smoothing. Without vsync I was hitting 90 fps quite often but would experience more stuttering when it would not.

The DFR with eye tracking was certainly a major peformance improvement even above the improvement we got with Multi Threading.  I do get hiccups on occasion which creates a large stutter, then it is back to smooth 45 fps again. Thankfully the hiccups are few and far between so I can live with them. Perhaps as DCS continues to improve the MT that will help settle that down a little.

I have had Rift , Rift S, Index, Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2, and now Aero. IMHO my Aero spanks them all easily, but yeah like you said it is costly. Thankfully I had the trackers that came with my Index I was able to use. Everyone's experience is different and I really hesitate trying to convince someone it is worth parting with 2K+ dollars. Have a look at the Varjo Discord if you are on there  and read up some users experiences might help. 

 

[Mars Exulte]

On 4/27/2023 at 7:21 PM, dburne said:

 

I have settle in to flying with Varjo Base Vsync locked to 45 fps. Seems to give me the smoothest overall experience. Note I am not using any Motion Smoothing. Without vsync I was hitting 90 fps quite often but would experience more stuttering when it would not.

The DFR with eye tracking was certainly a major peformance improvement even above the improvement we got with Multi Threading.  I do get hiccups on occasion which creates a large stutter, then it is back to smooth 45 fps again. Thankfully the hiccups are few and far between so I can live with them. Perhaps as DCS continues to improve the MT that will help settle that down a little.

I have had Rift , Rift S, Index, Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2, and now Aero. IMHO my Aero spanks them all easily, but yeah like you said it is costly. Thankfully I had the trackers that came with my Index I was able to use. Everyone's experience is different and I really hesitate trying to convince someone it is worth parting with 2K+ dollars. Have a look at the Varjo Discord if you are on there  and read up some users experiences might help. 

 

  Will do, thank you.

[Brainfreeze]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:26 AM, GunSlingerOZ said:

I haven't actually tried since MT came out. However, it seems like it's still a GPU issue, as it seems most VR users are experiencing GPU bottlenecks during the busier missions. 

Nope... my bottleneck is always CPU

[Burt]

Will the G2 controllers work with the Aero?

[dburne]

8 hours ago, Burt said:

Will the G2 controllers work with the Aero?

 

No.

[kerlcat]

@mbucchia thank you for your great efforts for even smaller group of users on Dynamic Foveated Rendering which is critical for high end headset with ultra high physical resolution. It matters to all of us eventually. Pls kindly keep us posted how those works with Varjo Aero and Crystal.