need evidence CCRP toss cue for Mk82 Air and SE?

[_SteelFalcon_]

unsure if correct or not, but with mk 82 AIR or SE loaded, the CCRP toss cue only appears right at the drop location instead of at a standoff range to actually toss the bombs

i dont know how much sense that makes, given they are high drag bombs. however, setting the bomb to "nose fuze" doesnt show toss symbology either until the drop point is reached. with this fuze they should be low drag and behave like the "normal" mk82, therefore i'd expect to be able to toss them.

however, with "normal" mk82, the toss cue seems correct.

in track Mk82AIr_toss cue you can see me flying over the target without dropping and you clearly see the toss cue flashing right at the drop locaiton. it makes no sense that there would be any pull up point to toss the bombs.

Low Drag ccrp_MK82.trk Low Drag ccrp_MK82AIR.trk Low Drag ccrp_MK82SE.trk MK82AIR_Toss cue.trk

[silverdevil]

21 minutes ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

unsure if correct or not, but with mk 82 AIR or SE loaded, the CCRP toss cue only appears right at the drop location instead of at a standoff range to actually toss the bombs

i dont know how much sense that makes, given they are high drag bombs. however, setting the bomb to "nose fuze" doesnt show toss symbology either until the drop point is reached. with this fuze they should be low drag and behave like the "normal" mk82, therefore i'd expect to be able to toss them.

however, with "normal" mk82, the toss cue seems correct.

in track Mk82AIr_toss cue you can see me flying over the target without dropping and you clearly see the toss cue flashing right at the drop locaiton. it makes no sense that there would be any pull up point to toss the bombs.

Low Drag ccrp_MK82.trk 1.42 MB · 1 download Low Drag ccrp_MK82AIR.trk 954.96 kB · 1 download Low Drag ccrp_MK82SE.trk 1.3 MB · 1 download MK82AIR_Toss cue.trk 977.1 kB · 1 download

i have not tried this myself. though thinking of how the retarded bombs work; they have fins that slow them down so not to risk the explosion damaging the dropping aircraft. so doing a toss would have much less trajectory and distance. my analogy would be the difference between a badminton shuttle cock and a tennis ball. i would think you would want to use these bombs on low level ccrp only. non-retarded bombs would be better off with tossing. i use toss technique with GPS bombs a lot.

but sorry i do not know if it is accurate.

Edited May 20, 2023 by silverdevil

[Moonshine]

10 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

i have not tried this myself. though thinking of how the retarded bombs work; they have fins that slow them down so not to risk the explosion damaging the dropping aircraft. so doing a toss would have much less trajectory and distance. my analogy would be the difference between a badminton shuttle cock and a tennis ball. i would think you would want to use these bombs on low level ccrp only. non-retarded bombs would be better off with tossing. i use toss technique with GPS bombs a lot.

but sorry i do not know if it is accurate.

 

he did state that he switched the fuzing of the bomb to "nose" hence the fins (for the snakeye) or parachute (for 82Air) will not deploy and slow the bomb down... he isnt talking about tossing them in hi-drag settings

Edited May 20, 2023 by Moonshine

[_SteelFalcon_]

10 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

i have not tried this myself. though thinking of how the retarded bombs work; they have fins that slow them down so not to risk the explosion damaging the dropping aircraft. so doing a toss would have much less trajectory and distance. my analogy would be the difference between a badminton shuttle cock and a tennis ball. i would think you would want to use these bombs on low level ccrp only. non-retarded bombs would be better off with tossing. i use toss technique with GPS bombs a lot.

but sorry i do not know if it is accurate.

 

well obviously, but that doesnt explain why you get toss cues at the drop point. and with nose fuze and thus low drag behavior, it makes even less sense since at that point it's basically a slick mk82

[silverdevil]

2 minutes ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

well obviously, but that doesnt explain why you get toss cues at the drop point. and with nose fuze and thus low drag behavior, it makes even less sense since at that point it's basically a slick mk82

my bad. i was confused. i am thinking it would still show what the plane thought you need to do for whatever bomb / mode you are using. maybe that is it.

[_SteelFalcon_]

In regards to evidence: i have none currently, i guess some info can be found in the -34

all i‘m curious about is when should the toss cue appear for high drag bombs? Should it even appear? What happens/should happen if i set the high drag bomb to not deploy the retardation device using nose fuze/low drag on the mfd? Current implementation shows the cue right at the drop point, which makes no sense anyway. Why would the 45° pull up to the drop be in the same place the bomb drop point is in level flight, especially in low drag settings?

 

Also why do i have a DLZ on normal slick Mk82 but not on SE or AIR when set to low drag?

Edited May 22, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[Falconeer]

On 5/20/2023 at 10:27 PM, _SteelFalcon_ said:

i dont know how much sense that makes, given they are high drag bombs. however, setting the bomb to "nose fuze" doesnt show toss symbology either until the drop point is reached. with this fuze they should be low drag and behave like the "normal" mk82, therefore i'd expect to be able to toss them.

however, with "normal" mk82, the toss cue seems correct.

Low Drag ccrp_MK82.trk 1.42 MB · 2 downloads Low Drag ccrp_MK82AIR.trk 954.96 kB · 2 downloads Low Drag ccrp_MK82SE.trk 1.3 MB · 2 downloads MK82AIR_Toss cue.trk 977.1 kB · 2 downloads

Nose or tail fuse has not so much to do with high or low drag tail. In this case the bomb has 2 fuses, in the nose and one in the tail, most likely a m904 and m905 fuse.

By selecting Nose, Tail or NS/T, you can only select which fuses get armed, when the bomb is dropped.

In case of high drag drop, the arming wire operating the tail, is usually mounted to a fixed point of the bomb rack. If you want to drop a high drag bomb in low drag mode, the tailmechanism is fixed using a steel wire.

Yes, the bomb rack has 3 arming solenoides, but the front and center solenoides are always switched at the same time.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Falconeer

[_SteelFalcon_]

11 minutes ago, Falconeer said:

Nose or tail fuse has nothing to do with high or low drag tail. In this case the bomb has 2 fuses, in the nose and one in the tail, most likely a m904 and m905 fuse.

By selecting Nose, Tail or NS/T, you can only select which fuses get armed, when the bomb is dropped.

In case of high drag drop, the arming wire operating the tail, is usually mounted to a fixed point of the bomb rack. If you want to drop a high drag bomb in low drag mode, the tail is fixed using a steel wire.

Yes, the bomb rack has 3 arming solenoides, but the front and center solenoides are always switched at the same time.

 

Thanks for the input

now my question is: by changing the fuze to nose in dcs, it indicates „Lo drag“ on the sms

the bomb indeed does deploy this way when released. 
shouldnt there be appropriate hud symbology for this setting? DLZ just like on basic mk82? Toss cue at correct distances?

„that other sim“ certainly does that accordingly. 

[Falconeer]

The manual does not specify high or low drag bombs in CCRP, so i would assume the are the same for both types

Edited May 23, 2023 by Falconeer