SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[Bashibazouk]

Yeah, I'm finding the sticktion on the skids in the Gazelle maddening. Surely this can't be realistic? If it was like this IRL we'd have dead Gazelle pilots everywhere, even if only the inexperienced ones.

The other chopper in game with skids, the Huey, is nothing like this and I'd have thought wheels would be more likely to stick (sideways) than skids but none of the other helis are anywhere near this bad. Thought I was just a really bad virtual pilot, so I've given up on the Gazelle campaigns. They are challenging without this, but to regularly tip over on take off or landing makes them rather frustrating. And no, I'm not that bad, I can fly all the others fine. It is possible to get by, but it takes an inordinate amount of concentration and sometimes it just seems to happen regardless if there's any wind, even if I'm careful to only land or takeoff directly into the wind.

[Ramius007]

altidue thing maybe? I remember 2000ft FARP Caucasus take of to be challanging, was impossible to take Gazelle to level flight

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Ramius007 said:

altidue thing maybe? I remember 2000ft FARP Caucasus take of to be challanging, was impossible to take Gazelle to level flight

 

Yup, altitude and an overloaded chopper don't work. Which is realistic. Previously the gaz was pretty immune to "physics". But the new FM absolutely accounts for weight and altitude, so it can get ugly. 

22 hours ago, Bashibazouk said:

Yeah, I'm finding the sticktion on the skids in the Gazelle maddening. Surely this can't be realistic? If it was like this IRL we'd have dead Gazelle pilots everywhere, even if only the inexperienced ones.

The other chopper in game with skids, the Huey, is nothing like this and I'd have thought wheels would be more likely to stick (sideways) than skids but none of the other helis are anywhere near this bad. Thought I was just a really bad virtual pilot, so I've given up on the Gazelle campaigns. They are challenging without this, but to regularly tip over on take off or landing makes them rather frustrating. And no, I'm not that bad, I can fly all the others fine. It is possible to get by, but it takes an inordinate amount of concentration and sometimes it just seems to happen regardless if there's any wind, even if I'm careful to only land or takeoff directly into the wind.

Weight and altitude are major issues for the Gaz. I seldom take more than 50% fuel, esp if carrying missiles etc.

[MAXsenna]

Yeah, I'm finding the sticktion on the skids in the Gazelle maddening. Surely this can't be realistic? If it was like this IRL we'd have dead Gazelle pilots everywhere, even if only the inexperienced ones.
The other chopper in game with skids, the Huey, is nothing like this and I'd have thought wheels would be more likely to stick (sideways) than skids but none of the other helis are anywhere near this bad. Thought I was just a really bad virtual pilot, so I've given up on the Gazelle campaigns. They are challenging without this, but to regularly tip over on take off or landing makes them rather frustrating. And no, I'm not that bad, I can fly all the others fine. It is possible to get by, but it takes an inordinate amount of concentration and sometimes it just seems to happen regardless if there's any wind, even if I'm careful to only land or takeoff directly into the wind.

Somethings off, that's for sure. Especially on the PG map. Just try my tip from above though. Right torque pedals, trim forward, and just fly without hovering.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Just made a test flight on the Gulf map in different location, I never got stuck on the ground. Can you give me the coordinates where you took off so I can test it?

I'll try to find the mission that gave me the worst grief.

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Weight and altitude are major issues for the Gaz. I seldom take more than 50% fuel, esp if carrying missiles etc.

Hmmm, haven't tried it in high altitudes yet to be honest. In any case the "sticky sand" is something new.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Ramius007]

There can be a bug related with PG map that I dont have, maybe something wrong with sand filter modelling, I would encourage to join Polychop discord

Edited January 9, 2024 by Ramius007

[Harlikwin]

3 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

There can be a bug related with PG map that I dont have, maybe something wrong with sand filter modelling, I would encourage to join Polychop discord

 

I've used the gaz on PG MP servers at least sorta recently without issue. 

And aside from the hilariously terrible sight modeling it was fine.

Edited January 9, 2024 by Harlikwin

[MAXsenna]

There can be a bug related with PG map that I dont have, maybe something wrong with sand filter modelling, I would encourage to join Polychop discord

I just tried it again now. Second to last mission in the MAD campaign. Had serious issues before. Gone now. Latest OpenBeta.

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[Ramius007]

31 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I just tried it again now. Second to last mission in the MAD campaign. Had serious issues before. Gone now. Latest OpenBeta.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Possibly too many mods installed, I had issues with radio on Gazelle before, and i found some mods guilty, UH 60, Virpil equimment, navy equpment, French pack, and iirc A-29, all those were crashing game when entered infantry encyclopedia. So highly likely they were creating issues with other stuff as well

[MAXsenna]

Possibly too many mods installed, I had issues with radio on Gazelle before, and i found some mods guilty, UH 60, Virpil equimment, navy equpment, French pack, and iirc A-29, all those were crashing game when entered infantry encyclopedia. So highly likely they were creating issues with other stuff as well

Possible of course, and highly likely. Have to check them even if I'm pretty sure I still have installed the same ones as before. I do have changed my graphics card though, and this happened pre 2.9 for me. Might even fly the whole campaign again.

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[Ramius007]

old mod can start crashing game with new DCS update, I had French pack mod working, but with newest update now, it no longer pass IC. I was running some trials recently, also stable older modules, started to crash game, had graphics glitches, no problems after clearing tech mods folder. Mods are great overall for SP, but have price

Edited January 9, 2024 by Ramius007

[MAXsenna]

old mod can start crashing game with new DCS update, I had French pack mod working, but with newest update now, it no longer pass IC. I was running some trials recently, also stable older modules, started to crash game, had graphics glitches, no problems after clearing tech mods folder. Mods are great overall for SP, but have price

Yeah, I'll give you that. But only changes for me was updating to 2.9 and upgrade graphics. Same mods are installed. So who knows. And the game didn't crash. The Gaz did, on take off.

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[XCNuse]

Having the stuck skids issue happening everywhere to me in Syria.

I've never experienced this issue in the Huey, so I've been struggling to figure out what I've been doing wrong until I came across this thread.

It wasn't making sense to me; trying to lift from the ground and for some reason it would keep tipping over in extreme ways; usually digging the rotors into the ground.

If there's any amount of wind, with even max deflection of the cyclic it still wants to do a flip.... there's no way this is correct.

 

Something for sure is not correct with ground handling.

(my game is completely vanilla, so it's definitely not a mod related issue)

Edited January 10, 2024 by XCNuse

[Harlikwin]

3 minutes ago, XCNuse said:

Having the stuck skids issue happening everywhere to me in Syria.

I've never experienced this issue in the Huey, so I've been struggling to figure out what I've been doing wrong until I came across this thread.

It wasn't making sense to me; trying to lift from the ground and for some reason it would keep tipping over in extreme ways; usually digging the rotors into the ground.

If there's any amount of wind, with even max deflection of the cyclic it still wants to do a flip.... there's no way this is correct.

 

Something for sure is not correct with ground handling.

(my game is completely vanilla, so it's definitely not a mod related issue)

 

Well, maybe the new patch broke stuff again... Certainly wouldn't be the first time, though you'd hope the testers would catch something that obvious. 

[RealDCSpilot]

12 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

I seldom take more than 50% fuel, esp if carrying missiles etc.

This is the golden rule for any helicopter. And you almost never need more than 50% fuel unless you plan to fly around for hours.

 

2 hours ago, XCNuse said:

Having the stuck skids issue happening everywhere to me in Syria.

I'm flying the Gazelle very often on the Syria map. Never had this issue. Please check your weight/loadout and make sure to have only the amount of fuel that is really needed. Also check if your start trim is slightly left and back and countering mainrotor torque with pedals is smoothly synchronized with raising the collective.

[Schlomo1933]

Am 11.6.2023 um 06:39 schrieb vsTerminus:

So I took the new Gazelle out for about an hour last night and wanted to say thank you for updating the FM. I honestly did not expect it to happen before the Kiowa and I'm thrilled that you decided to do it.

Previously my biggest issues were the control hypersensitivity and the way it held bank like a fixed wing aircraft. Both of those have been dealt with; It now flies like a helicopter should, and that's so awesome. For the first time I'm able to fly around the streets of Beirut and keep it between all the light posts without any trouble. I also found myself in VRS by surprise a couple times Nice work on the update, seriously.

With that said, there are a couple things I noticed that don't seem quite right to me that you might already be aware of...

1. The Gazelle should require some aft and right cyclic in a hover with calm winds, right? Well, right now it requires aft and left cyclic, but wants to roll right so hard that it still hangs right skid low. Something is generating a lot of right roll that probably shouldn't be. **Edit** Apparently this is correct. It just struck me as unusual for a clockwise rotating helicopter.

2. The engine still seems to be able to spool up and meet any demand I place on it instantaneously. Like, if I'm sitting on the ground and go from 0 to 100% collective in a split second, it should cause a significant drop in rotor RPM while the engine spools up and tries to deal with the increased demand, but instead the rotor RPM is maintained and it just launches straight up.

Oh, and unrelated to the FM, but the rotor disc sound seems to have a Flanging Effect that is really clearly audible, at least to my ears. Dunno if there's anything you can do about it but I don't hear it in the other helis.

Overall I think it's a really nice update and makes the Gazelle so much more enjoyable to fly, but there are some smaller issues that would be nice to get ironed out in future patches.

 

 

The 2nd point is important.
I hope Poly will fix this. Then the gazelle will be after such along time helicopter with believable flight physics. Your now on a good way. 
 

[Marshallman]

Good video.
 

[BRRRRT-REYNOLDS]

Wow I can't believe. People's perceived entitlement.

I bought this module long ago and I would gladly have paid for it again. Great work team. 
It was a minute until I got back to where I was flying it before but Im very pleased with the work done to date.
Dont rush please. 
Just keep on keeping on!

[Marshallman]

 

 

[Harlikwin]

10 hours ago, Marshallman said:

 

 

Hopefully the fix the friggin Optical sight stabilization, or actually model it in the first place, to call that "arcade" level is being nice.

[karasinicoff]

Anyone can fly this thing?

I expected new update but more disappointments...

Try to take off but rudder inputs seems keep skipping around and very unstable.

I check all Axe etc and my T rudder has no issue. just in this module the rudder input keep breaking.

That wrong rudder inputs cause crash!!

Only I was able to fly control with ZX keyboard.

Sigh... I feel gotta give up this moduel. When I meet a right light chopper with acceptable FM model?

[Holbeach]

1 hour ago, karasinicoff said:

Anyone can fly this thing?

I expected new update but more disappointments...

Try to take off but rudder inputs seems keep skipping around and very unstable.

I check all Axe etc and my T rudder has no issue. just in this module the rudder input keep breaking.

That wrong rudder inputs cause crash!!

Only I was able to fly control with ZX keyboard.

Sigh... I feel gotta give up this moduel. When I meet a right light chopper with acceptable FM model?

Check your axes inputs, which will be duplicated AND in the co pilots inputs which also need to be corrected.

..

[karasinicoff]

Fixed it!! I deleted all Config setting files and the module.

After re install Gazelle, the rudder works fine now.

[RangerGav]

I decided to try the Gazelle out again today to see what the first iteration of the minigun AI was like. Unfortunately I couldn't fly it as I kept getting ghost control problems. Collective would suddenly snap to full power while just idle on the pad getting set up. Cleared all axis bindings for it and redid them - still happened. Tried a different Gazelle config and in SP mission (first tried in MP), and same thing happened. Then got up in the air finally (had to keep wiggling the collective to correct it if it snapped to full), only to have the heli suddenly flip over for no reason. I went through and cleared all flight control key bindings as well so there's nothing but the specific device controls set up. Heli still acting crazy.

Any ideas?

[RangerGav]

Ahhh... looks like I had the problem @Holbeach referred to above... the copilots axes were screwing things up!

[Furious]

48 minutes ago, RangerGav said:

Ahhh... looks like I had the problem @Holbeach referred to above... the copilots axes were screwing things up!

I had the same thing - nearly lost my mind trying to figure out what was happening...