Will Jester II be a grown up ?

[freehand]

2 hours ago, Omega417 said:

Have you ever considered that you are old.

You think 37 is old ?

[Raisuli]

3 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Mover/C.W. Lemoine is 40. Well within the millennial generation and less then 3 years older than me, so wouldn't call him old guy. I don't think any Gen Zs are old enough to be fighter pilots yet. So he's referring to his own age group mostly I would think.

Mover is a freaking fetus.  We're still not even sure if he's a viable fetus yet.  That's how young Mover is.

I do know his commentary on requirements for 'pilot' are a lot more lax than back when I took the flight physical.  Qualified for NFO even with the crappy eyesight which surprised the heck out of me.  The eyesight would have (probably) relegated me to riding on busses, though.  Now I have 20/10 distance vision; former RO on the Nimitz took care of that 30-something years after that physical...

[Slippery Pete]

7 hours ago, ricktoberfest said:

Do you know any fighter pilots?  Jester’s humor is realistic if a bit repetitive 

Was Jester's dialogue written by fighter pilots? Or was it written with the help of reddit discord mememers?  

[Temetre]

Am 14.7.2023 um 01:18 schrieb Slippery Pete:

Was Jester's dialogue written by fighter pilots? Or was it written with the help of reddit discord mememers?  

Are you a fighter pilot? Or are you just assuming that its common to operatively remove the pilots humor?  

[CarbonFox]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:31 PM, Gunfreak said:

Mover/C.W. Lemoine is 40. Well within the millennial generation and less then 3 years older than me, so wouldn't call him old guy. I don't think any Gen Zs are old enough to be fighter pilots yet. So he's referring to his own age group mostly I would think.

Considering that the oldest Zoomer is 26 now, I'd say that's well within the fighter pilot age bracket.

[CrazyGman]

Would it be possible to create a Jester replacement mod for the F-14 and F-4 called R2? 

I find the idea of replacing Jesters voice and mannerisms with a series of high pitched whistles, beeps and trills far more tolarable.

[CrazyGman]

The problem is heatblur decided to give Jester a personality, but they should have learned from their exposure to F-14 SME's that those personalities are terrible.

Edited July 25, 2023 by CrazyGman

[CrazyGman]

1 hour ago, CrazyGman said:

Would it be possible to create a Jester replacement mod for the F-14 and F-4 called R2? 

I find the idea of replacing Jesters voice and mannerisms with a series of high pitched whistles, beeps and trills far more tolarable.

Nevermind it's already been done

[DD_Fenrir]

I get that some of you find Jester not to your flavour...

But remember, if you find him that obnoxious, you have been given an option to silence him.

Whilst that might not be ideal, it is the option you have currently - a binary set. Like it or lump it.

Knowing Heatblur, and their desire to satisfy as wide a demographic of their customer base as is economically feasible, it would not surprise me if Jester 2 is coming with an option for him to have as biege a personality as could possibly be wished for (though I suspect that even then the most misanthropic amongst you would still complain he was too emotive). In that sense, you will have your robotic little back seat helper as bland as you could possibly hope for.

And to those of you who cast shade at Jester sneer and whine indignantly, I'd remind you what a ground breaking feature it was when released - no other DCS module, even ED's own came close to even attempting an AI co-aviator that would adapt and even attempt to emote to given tactical situations and to engage in a realistic and ergonomically restricted way with the systems and tactical environment.

And furthermore to do so with a measure of humanity, to try and bring you a sense of immersion, that there wasn't just this soulless automaton working away behind you, to attempt to give you a hint of the reality of working in concert with another human being in your aircraft - arguably an experience more fundamental in the Tomcat than any other aircraft - is to be applauded. Heatblur set their sights high. 

That there were hiccups, a few bugs to iron out and some getting-the-hang-of-it on the part of users is to be expected but overall Heatblur have worked hard, conscientiously and with open minds to feedback. Just look at the current Strike Eagle back-seater AI (hint: THERE AIN'T ONE) to appreciate just what you got out of the box from Heatblur from DAY 1 of early access. 

It's on that final note that I will also remind you that the people behind Jester are just that - people. You have a right to critique, to ask for fixes and improvements but some of you forget that these same people have invested a huge amount of time, effort, intellectual energy, physical energy and emotional energy to just this feature of the module, that your $XX.XX only partially compensates for. If you don't like Jester's as he is, fine that is your right. You don't have to be a d*ck about the manner in which you relay that feedback to some VERY hard working folks.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by DD_Fenrir

[MBot]

41 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

robotic little back seat helper as bland as you could possibly hope for

I don't understand why this argument is kept being made. I don't think this is what people want.

When listening to the Gulf of Sidra tape, I remember that the voices are very tense and emontional. But I do not remember anyone making silly jokes in that situation. That is in my opinion the point. When the master arm goes on, the jokes stop.

[DD_Fenrir]

26 minutes ago, MBot said:

I don't understand why this argument is kept being made. I don't think this is what people want.

When listening to the Gulf of Sidra tape, I remember that the voices are very tense and emontional. But I do not remember anyone making silly jokes in that situation. That is in my opinion the point. When the master arm goes on, the jokes stop.

So you base the entirety of all the potential human personality types to have ever been involved in Naval Combat Aviation against one evidence source?

There are some people who use black humour as a coping mechanism; speak to Emergency Service Workers as to whether someone may or may not have made a darkly humourous quip at an inappropriate moment...

Besides, I don't have a problem with you having a problem with Jester... it's your right. You think that some of his quips come at inappropriate moments... fair enough, but I don't think one vox recording of a combat sortie can be indicative of all.

Edited July 25, 2023 by DD_Fenrir

[freehand]

Its like flying with a 10 year old kid lol.

[MBot]

25 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

So you base the entirety of all the potential human personality types to have ever been involved in Naval Combat Aviation against one evidence source?

There are some people who use black humour as a coping mechanism; speak to Emergency Service Workers as to whether someone may or may not have made a darkly humourous quip at an inappropriate moment...

Besides, I don't have a problem with you having a problem with Jester... it's your right. You think that some of his quips come at inappropriate moments... fair enough, but I don't think one vox recording of a combat sortie can be indicative of all.

 

Fair enough. I will just say, personally I have a hard time beliefing that making 420 jokes is a very common occurence while an enemy is actively maneuvering to kill you.

[IronMike]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:18 AM, Slippery Pete said:

Was Jester's dialogue written by fighter pilots? Or was it written with the help of reddit discord mememers?  

It is not our fault that some think that what they find on the internet of today has in fact been created by the internet today... Some folks may not realize it, but most "memes" and internet jokes are as old as you can imagine. Heck, even the "two weeks" joke came up some time between the end of the 19th century and beginning of 20th... Maybe your misunderstanding here also stems from the fact that you misquote Jester, he never says something like "420 blaze it f/got" - he says "420! Blaze it!" - which leaves it up to your mind to make of it what you make of it, such is the nature of puns, underlined by the fact that in your mind you even added a slur to it that does not exist in the sim.

Jester's humor really is nested in the late 80s pop culture, which we achieved by assuming what he would have watched, would he had lived Top Gun, or in other words: what would have been the movies and culture a Top Gun grad would have consumed, had the movie never been made. This stretches from racing icons, to shooting stars, to music, to movies, to literature, etc... (Never seen a thread about that component btw.) To give him a personality, to elevate him from a mere functional button clicker program to a cultural figure himself, we had to make himself be a fan of culture. And it is a culture derived from folks who served at that time, in the Navy, in the Air Force and in the USMC. Many of whom we know intimately, many of whose traits you will find in Jester. Funnily enough: in a heavily toned down manner. There are no slurs, there are no discriminatory jokes (as the one you misquoted), which were very much a thing at the time, he does not even say the military's favorite word that starts with an F. Which always makes me a bit surprised how crass some react to his already extremely toned down and not at all representative manners of the time (leaving out all the negatives), including former service members who seem to have forgotten their youth, or alternatively, never seem to have lived it. Some don't have humor, some lose it over time, but they are the few in between, most former servicemen I know preserve it and cherish it.

Generally I came across two types of fighter pilots - those who will want you think that they were the most disciplined professional machines ever to serve in the skies (and some really were), and those who not only will admit that they were knuckleheads, but usually add "we were a lot worse in fact." (Mostly though they are people, and as diverse as folks in any profession.) We took inspiration from both, and Jester exhibits both traits, but he is naturally leaning towards the funny guy, because it is no fun to write boring characters, nor is it to consume them as the audience. While it is ok when some ask for a boring Jester, what would not be ok, by any means, is to write boring characters. Beyond that humor is a matter of taste, too. And you cannot write something humerous without polarising at all. Such is its nature, and while we generally try to accommodate everyone (see: "(...)in a heavily toned down manner") - when it comes to such decisions, one just can't, and quite frankly, we also do not always want to.

Flight sims are video games, and video games are art, their ultimate goal is to entertain you. And as much as with the component of realism in sims, to achieve both simulation and entertainment, the component of art and creativity must not be fully negotiable to public opinion, or one deafens the creativity and freedom of expression long term, which, well, makes our modules what they are. Unfortunately, some will never like them. But the fact that we are discussing the personality traits of your AI backseater in a flight simulator, I would hope, illustrates how and why they stand out. And what some are asking, is that we take this very "spark" away, which at best would push us towards something far more average.

And no, Jester has not been written by fighter pilots or RIOs, because if you let them write themselves, you get "Mr. Perfect" (they shall hopefully forgive me that I am exaggerating the fact). And no one likes "Mr. Perfect." But they heavily influenced him, both by being an example and by telling stories and sharing their memories. A lot of the jokes folks criticize are in fact taken from reality, not even pop culture. And all you need to do is to listen to some NTTR scanner audios to hear what can happen when the dirt hits the fan. Brevity and "comms discipline" can quickly turn into screaming and cussing. Which is also why I would not agree with Jester suddenly becoming "behaved" or "boring" when Master Arm gets flicked on. How folks cope with high stress is as diverse as people themselves, some experience a numbing Angst, some cry to their mummy, some switch into operator mode, others cope with humor. We chose humor, because it is generally the most fun and positive mood setter in your free time long term. And again, if you go and search the lore of fighter culture and stories, plenty of what Jester displays, is at least to some extent rooted in real life examples, if not taken directly from. From screaming instructors, to anecdotes, to deadbeat jokes. The gulf of sidra incident is only one example, and a bad one I might add, because Leo the RIO does not cause bewilderement and awkwardness with his peers for no reason (just listen to the pilot's reaction). It just is no fun to be around such people, not in real life, and not in a sim. 

We do listen to your requests, and we do take them seriously, but for above reasons, we cannot always give in. And ofc I read with a heavy heart that some do not enjoy Jester as much as others, but such is the price we have to pay to give him a distinct personality, and no matter what personality we would give him, some would never like it and would want a different one. That we could never change, even if we wanted to.

Thank you for your kind understanding.

Edited July 25, 2023 by IronMike

[Bosun]

I think what you're seeing here is also a changing of dynamic for what a pilot wants to see in a RIO.  Perhaps in the younger generations, or in the earlier eras of that age group, pilots would act that way.  Given that many of us are a smidge older than the average jockey in real life, a lot of folks want someone that reflects their maturity level.  In the same way we dont' want to hang out at ravers with 18 year olds, we also don't want to constantly deal with one in our back seat. 

Were this a single play-through, such as an RPG game like Half Life or something, we may find it more endearing and fun.  I love the personality, honestly.  When it gets into repetitive play, however, the charm wears off due to the repetition inherent in the system. This isn't avoidable, unfortunately. That is something to factor in when creating the character.  A good middle ground would be to have Jester's personality be more evident in the scripted campaigns, with the generic calls used in regular flying being a little more...vanilla. Still use inflection and varying calls - the stutters and surprised catches of his voice in instances is actually awesomely immersive, but tone down the colorful comments so it is more generic. Having the scripted campaigns really reveal his personality with the regular calls being more tone-neutral will give that personality even in the generic flying, on multiplayer, if someone has done the campaigns, due to the association and projection of the pilot as he is familiar with jester.  

If we were actual pilots, we'd be training our RIOs on how we wanted them to interact with us, having debriefing with them to go over what kinds of communication is best for us both to acheive our goals up there, and that kind of teamwork isn't possible with a computer.  But - I have potential solution for that below.

The only thing I request of Jester, is to somehow mediate his calls when you are 'close' to the basket trap on AAR. If I've hovering right 'in' the basket but not full contact yet, the Jester voice cue que gets 'stack overflow' essentially, such that after I make contact, for the next 30 seconds, I'm hearing him tell me how close I am - despite already taking fuel.   Any way to mediate the number of calls he can do when you're within 5 ft of the basket for extended periods of time as you nudge forward?

Also -

For folks that want a less-funny Jester, it is actually fairly easy.  Check out Bring-the-Reign's tutorial.  
Try submitting a new voice for synthesis in Elevenlabs by uploading Jester's original audio files (some of the longer calls.)  Once his voice is mimiced, you can go back through the call list, find the calls you want to replace, and one by one, re-record them with the mimic'd voice.  

Just a thought.


Actually - @IronMike
Would it be possible to get clips of the original, un-FX'd audio sample of the Jester voice to synthesize?  That way folks could mimic it better than the distored version, and then apply the FX again to get the radio distortion - thereby making individual Jester call file replacement much easier, for those that want it.  After doing a few of these calls with a new voice I'm putting in - it's actually very simple to replace a handful of calls, and takes no time at all. 

Or - even better - Release a special "Jester Package" that includes sample audio files non-distorted to synthesize in a program like ElevenLabs, the distortion macro, and instructions.  

Or - A 'Jester Editor', like a Mission Editor, that would include a Jester Voice that can text-to-speech in a single tool, so that anyone could type anything in it and reproduce the calls they want.  The Editor would then automatically re-save the file you wanted to replace.  That would fit the future-proofing you're doing for the deeper level fidelity of modules.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bosun

[Raisuli]

6 hours ago, IronMike said:

Jester's humor really is nested in the late 80s pop culture

No wonder he drives me batty.  I didn't like late 80s pop culture the first time I had to live with it!  At least he's not 70s pop culture!

I guess Clown (Jester II) will be 60s pop culture, which is even worse and might cause traumatic flashbacks!  Fortunately PIC can dictate cockpit discipline!  "Tell me what I need to know, otherwise STFU!"

<edit>

I should add, for the record, that whether or not you like the result HB does everything insanely well.  I've seen very few software companies that pay attention to detail like this.  That doesn't mean it fits every audience, and there are things HB has done (very well) that I really dislike, even if I admire the quality of the work they've done!  It almost makes me sad to be critical, because the skill and effort that went into it is praiseworthy in and of itself. 

</edit>

Edited July 25, 2023 by Raisuli

[Trooper117]

I'm sure Robin Olds wouldn't go for a comedian in the back seat... Having read his life story his GIB (Guy In the Back) had to be totally up to the job. If your'e clowning around you aren't concentrating on staying alive.

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I'm sure Robin Olds wouldn't go for a comedian in the back seat... Having read his life story his GIB (Guy In the Back) had to be totally up to the job. If your'e clowning around you aren't concentrating on staying alive.

This I think would be a grave misunderstanding of Robin Olds, who stands for "bending the rules" likely more than most. He was a very empathic leader, witty, funny, and willing to push the envelope of dos and don'ts, someone who openly opposed procedure, if it favored a better outcome, someone who was willing to fly an airshow to get his promotion declined so he can keep flying and who had his GIB go through garbage to find his lucky socks all while showing a big middle finger, in the words of his daughter, to Washington in the form of a giant mustache that was against regulations. From several accounts there were all hell broke lose moments, including screaming in the cockpit, and you can bet that banter was included. I can imagine he was a much more no nonsense guy in the heat of the moment than most, but if his GIB would have gotten him kills with a joke on his lips, Olds, I am sure, was not the type to complain, he encouraged pilots to think outside of the box, like he did himself. That has "open minded" written all over him, not as much as being stiff. But in the end, this is how I see Olds, vs how you see Olds, which is fine.

Just a remark would be that we're not Robin Olds but playing software that is meant for entertainment purposes only. Which makes a difference. On top of that, you have real life accounts attesting to the contrary in this very same thread, Olds or not, I guess their word counts more than mine. Lastly, there is a difference between clowning around and making jokes even in dire situations. There is no instance where Jester is clowning around, which implies acting off distracted from the task, rather than just conveying still accurate and on point info through a joke. In fact folks who have a professional or hightened SA, develop the ability to have a spare 3 or so percent of SA to watch themselves executing their tasks, including commenting on themselves and their actions in a humerous manner, which actually lets them assess their situation even better and correct their actions on the fly. This is true for benign things like stage actors adjusting their stance while staying completely in role, Irish rally drivers Neil Hickey and Enda Kennedy blurring out one pun after the other while racing corners, Ayrton Senna saying he watched himself from above and corrected his driving on the track (during a wet Monte Carlo race of all things), or fighter pilots screaming during a dogfight, like "kiiiilll hiiiim!" not to distract themselves, but to actually increase their SA and play into the adrenaline filled moment.

Here is a great and hilarious example of what I mean. This isn't "clowning" around, but how high performance can also look like (and no, this ofc did not inspire Jester, just something I remembered while writing this reply):
 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by IronMike

[Victory205]

There was a famous, within the Navy, incident during WWII where an isolated young pilot was getting shot up by a swarm of Zeros, yelling over the radio for help. Nothing could be done for him, and he was garbaging up the frequency, blocking critical calls, so one of the grizzled veterans calmly transmitted, "Shut up and die like a man". It's detailed in "First Blue" by Butch Vories.

I never flew with anyone remotely as goofy as Jester. While most fighter personalities trended towards cynical humor on the ground, in the cockpit, it was all business. Once the deck crew began to break down the chains on your aircraft prior to launch, and until you were safely off of the flight deck after the recovery, the tone was calm, serious business. There was a lot to do and think about, and no yelling, screeching, or infantile distractions were tolerated from either cockpit. Had nothing to do with being "Mr Perfect", and everything to do with being a professional aviator.

Apart from humor, there was an expectation of comms cadence and compliance with ROE and tactics. Leo the RIO's blathering and behavior from the second Gulf of Sidra incident was widely panned throughout the community. The wingman's behavior was calm and professional, but the inter cockpit tape wasn't released to the public as far as I know. You can still hear the difference between the two crews on the flight lead's audio. The reputation's earned for life in the aftermath between the two aircraft were very different.

Jester is a valuable solution for an aircraft that is heavily crew coordination dependent being flown solo, but his "attitude" is obviously an artistic interpretation, based on the Hollywood expectations of what a RIO should act like, and an attempt to entertain an audience comprised of gamers with corresponding maturities. I hear more silliness from kids crashing their modules into bridges and ships than I do from Jester, but I find both annoying to some degree.

Maybe some old grizzled fighter pilot should tell both of them to “Shut up and die like a man…”  

[Czechnology]

I really think the personality is fine. I can say I certainly prefer Jester's chatter to Petrovich. Of course Jester is just better fleshed out in general, but still. 

I can see how someone might not like Jester, sure, but it's not that big a deal. 

[IronMike]

9 hours ago, Victory205 said:

There was a famous, within the Navy, incident during WWII where an isolated young pilot was getting shot up by a swarm of Zeros, yelling over the radio for help. Nothing could be done for him, and he was garbaging up the frequency, blocking critical calls, so one of the grizzled veterans calmly transmitted, "Shut up and die like a man". It's detailed in "First Blue" by Butch Vories.

I never flew with anyone remotely as goofy as Jester. While most fighter personalities trended towards cynical humor on the ground, in the cockpit, it was all business. Once the deck crew began to break down the chains on your aircraft prior to launch, and until you were safely off of the flight deck after the recovery, the tone was calm, serious business. There was a lot to do and think about, and no yelling, screeching, or infantile distractions were tolerated from either cockpit. Had nothing to do with being "Mr Perfect", and everything to do with being a professional aviator.

Apart from humor, there was an expectation of comms cadence and compliance with ROE and tactics. Leo the RIO's blathering and behavior from the second Gulf of Sidra incident was widely panned throughout the community. The wingman's behavior was calm and professional, but the inter cockpit tape wasn't released to the public as far as I know. You can still hear the difference between the two crews on the flight lead's audio. The reputation's earned for life in the aftermath between the two aircraft were very different.

Jester is a valuable solution for an aircraft that is heavily crew coordination dependent being flown solo, but his "attitude" is obviously an artistic interpretation, based on the Hollywood expectations of what a RIO should act like, and an attempt to entertain an audience comprised of gamers with corresponding maturities. I hear more silliness from kids crashing their modules into bridges and ships than I do from Jester, but I find both annoying to some degree.

Maybe some old grizzled fighter pilot should tell both of them to “Shut up and die like a man…”  

Haha, duely noted @Victory205.

I don't doubt for a second that this was the norm, and that the majority of moments were comprised of a professional demeanor and atmosphere. And of course, your job was not to entertain. But it is a bit like the increased buffeting, for the screen, and for entertainment purposes, it is not a strong exposition and does not translate very well long term. I would never assume that any one pilot or RIO or WSO was ever as comedic as Jester, but the fact remains that he's still taking examples from real life stories, from scanner audios, from stories we've been told, from videos, etc... and condenses it into a character and personality, who unlike real life pilots and NFOs, has to entertain at the same time. It's less taking examples from Hollywood (a reason why except for the obligatory one liner there are little to no Top Gun references) than making Jester a fan of Hollywood (with the premise that in his "timeline" Top Gun never existed), a fan of movies, and drawing from those stories mentioned above and the movies into his persona.

It's not that I do not understand the wish of some to have a more "strictly business", or, if you will, a leaner RIO (and for Jester 2.0 we will be looking into solutions how to offer more options for Jester), it's that I am asking to understand why we cannot write characters that would appear bland or pale to a large degree, if they would not have a bit of an over the top attitude. It's not easy to give an AI that has language stitched together from call snippets a personality that also displays a range of emotions, which are all compatible, but also distinct from each other at the same time (and with his own cultural background). Caricaturizing the character, by overdrawing his edges, exposes his contoures better, makes it possible to contrast his traits. Which is needed to make him appear more human-like, while he is in fact a quite limited "AI" program, not even with a mind of his own, but following a behavioral tree. His behavior can only ever be situational, where ofc we try to make him as human-like, too, but by breaking the robotic repetitiveness of tasks with his contrasting demeanor, you get something much closer to a "pal in the backseat" than a program interfacing the RIO systems for you.

His maturity is based on the maturity of someone in his mid twenties, as I have seen displayed by servicemen in their twenties plenty, pilots or not. But, here, too, it is caricaturized, no one person is ever always like that. Everything here is condensed and overdrawn ofc. Would he had been written as a character in a novel, this would be different, it would be bad writing in fact, 100%. He is cliché and what in theatre would be called a charged role, like Firs in Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard. They are great if you make them walk across the stage once or twice, but cannot serve as main characters. But a novel or a theatre play has not the limits we have. 11k voice calls sounds a lot, but is not nearly enough to write free dialogue, or a fully nuanced, life-like character, a human in thought, expression and demeanor, living out a story and growing througout. We cannot tell Jester's humor and lifestory in the ready room, or pre flight, or in the bunks at night, at the bar with his buddies, or laughingly stumbling arm in arm with his pilot over the flight deck reminiscing of a funny moment. We have to take aspects of it, magnify it, charge it, and displace that into the cockpit.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by IronMike

[G.J.S]

There’s a Time and place . . . 
Echoing Victory205, aircrew in general are “business above brashness”, however humour does shine, and so it should. People ARE people after all. Yes Jester has some wince making tendencies, but I would much rather that than a robot.

I really don’t know much about programming at all, and that’s putting it mildly! But Jester could do with a slider - goofy at one end, operator at the other, and depending on phase of flight and switchology, the set of recordings available could be from one end or the other. Just an idea - GOD KNOWS how easy it is to implement?

 

 

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, G.J.S said:

There’s a Time and place . . . 
Echoing Victory205, aircrew in general are “business above brashness”, however humour does shine, and so it should. People ARE people after all. Yes Jester has some wince making tendencies, but I would much rather that than a robot.

I really don’t know much about programming at all, and that’s putting it mildly! But Jester could do with a slider - goofy at one end, operator at the other, and depending on phase of flight and switchology, the set of recordings available could be from one end or the other. Just an idea - GOD KNOWS how easy it is to implement?

 

 

Unfortunately a slider would not help much, neither would "phase of flight", it really would be a rather either/or solution, because the jokes are part of the call variations, which can only ever happen for a set situation in that situation, for example in a dofight, if the joke is part of a directional call, like you would only ever hear the wire trap remarks when trapping a specific wire. So say you defined trapping on the boat as "serious phase of flight", just as an arbitrary example now, then you would hear no jokes when trapping at all, if you removed them from the call-stack. It is intertwined, as in there is not a set of calls labeled "jokes" that get added to a situation. Much rather the joke is included in or part of the call variation belonging to the situation (as this is a much more natural way to create situational comedy). This btw also means that his jokes are somewhat isolated to specific situations, he is not that overall goofey as some make it out to be, it is ofc repetition at some point that stacks his comedic remarks, while there is also enough arbitrary variation that some calls/jokes may never be heard by someone. We really are very limited in what we can draw from, and already bloated his repertoire to 11k calls, of which there are maybe some 200 to 300 jokes at best, if not much less.

Breaking the 4th wall on purpose is playing towards the gaming aspect of the sim, which imo is just as important. I doubt any pilot irl would appreciate his RIO going "boink boink bolter" when they bolter, haha, but in the sim, when you learn trapping, or have a bad day, and frustration starts to eat away at the enjoyment of your leisure activity, the comedic relief returns a bit of the entertainment/enjoyment that has been lost through the tedious/frustrating phase of simming. And depending on your goals, frustration can draw some further in, but also push away others, while Jester tries to make them both chuckle and remind them: we're here to have fun. Would this be a professional sim aimed at irl training, he would ofc exhibit none of that, to the contrary, he would be structured to offer only ever that which is needed.

While the module itself aims to stand the test against the irl professionals who operated or worked on or with these aircraft, and aims at historic accuracy, trying to honor both aircraft and crew, Jester aims to stand the test of entertaining a widespread and diverse community who plays the sim at different levels of skill, immersion, time invested and simulation or arcadish fun, coming from all sorts of backgrounds. All of which are valid, and in the end, would like to be entertained, to different levels through different means. Hence offering options is something we like to do, whenever it is faisable. I would not oppose a "personality intensity" setting for Jester at all, I just would not want to compromise in writing his character and/or personality. But also, we have a lot more important things to tackle first, which is making him better and more professional and human like in the way he fulfills his tasks, and serves as a RIO and WSO in the F4.

All of your input, including this thread, will figure into Jester 2.0, and we always appreciate these ideas and listen very closely, I can assure you all of that. But please also remember, everyone, that Jester is in majority appreciated as is, when it comes to personality, and tastes do differ, while his shortcomings in functionality and operation otoh are shared among you all more or less evenly, which just naturally sets a priority to focus on improving his functionality above all. More and added functionality, means also more situations to spread out his call variations, including new calls that add to his professional side, though we will ofc also keep adding the occasional joke here and there, if we feel it is necessary or fits or helps us expand the Jester persona or lore.

Generally though we are striving to offer you more options with Jester in the future, not less, and we will see how we can approach such ideas best.
 

Edited July 26, 2023 by IronMike

[G.J.S]

2 minutes ago, IronMike said:

Unfortunately a slider would not help much, neither would "phase of flight", it really would be a rather either/or solution, because the jokes are part of the call variations, which can only ever happen for a set situation in that situation, for example in a dofight, if the joke is part of a directional call, like you would only ever hear the wire trap remarks when trapping a specific wire. So say you defined trapping on the boat as "serious phase of flight", just as an arbitrary example now, then you would hear no jokes when trapping at all, if you removed them from the call-stack. It is intertwined, as in there is not a set of calls labeled "jokes" that get added to a situation. Much rather the joke is included in or part of the call variation belonging to the situation. This btw also means that his jokes are somewhat isolated to specific situations, he is not that overall goofey as some make it out to be, it is ofc repetition at some point that stacks his comedic remarks, while there is also enough arbitrary variation that some calls/jokes may never be heard by someone. We really are very limited in what we can draw from, and already bloated his repertoire to 11k calls, of which there are maybe some 200 to 300 jokes at best, if not much less.

Breaking the 4th wall on purpose is playing towards the gaming aspect of the sim, which imo is just as important. I doubt any pilot irl would appreciate his RIO going "boink boink bolter" when they bolter, haha, but in the sim, when you learn trapping, or have a bad day, and frustration starts to eat away at the enjoyment of your leisure activity, the comedic relief returns a bit of the entertainment/enjoyment that has been lost through the tedious/frustrating phase of simming. And depending on your goals, frustration can draw some further in, but also push away others, while Jester tries to make them both chuckle and remind them: we're here to have fun. Would this be a professional sim aimed at irl training, he would ofc exhibit none of that, to the contrary, he would be structured to offer only ever that which is needed.

While the module itself aims to stand the test against the irl professionals who operated or worked on or with these aircraft, and aims at historic accuracy, trying to honor both aircraft and crew, Jester aims to stand the test of entertaining a widespread and diverse community who plays the sim at different levels of skill, immersion, time invested and simulation or arcadish fun, coming from all sorts of backgrounds. All of which are valid, and in the end, would like to be entertained, to different levels through different means. Hence offering options is something we like to do, whenever it is faisable. I would not oppose a "personality intensity" setting for Jester at all, I just would not want to compromise in writing his character and/or personality. But also, we have a lot more important things to tackle first, which is making him better and more professional and human like in the way he fulfills his tasks, and serves as a RIO and WSO in the F4.

All of your input, including this thread, will figure into Jester 2.0, and we always appreciate these ideas and listen very closely, I can assure you all of that. But please also remember, everyone, that Jester is in majority appreciated as is, when it comes to personality, and tastes do differ, while his shortcomings in functionality and operation otoh are shared among you all more or less evenly, which just naturally sets a priority to focus on improving his functionality above all. More and added functionality, means also more situations to spread out his call variations, including new calls that add to his professional side, though we will ofc also keep adding the occasional joke here and there, if we feel it is necessary or fits or helps us expand the Jester persona or lore.

Generally though we are striving to offer you more options with Jester in the future, not less, and we will see how we can approach such ideas best.
 

Hiya Aleks, completely agree, and to be honest - jester “as is” is perfectly fine. Yes there are some times that make you just feel “old”, but for the reasons you have stated - he does well. And quite often raises a smile at certain moments! 
Hope you and yours are well, and settled in okay after your relocation.  

[IronMike]

5 minutes ago, G.J.S said:

Hiya Aleks, completely agree, and to be honest - jester “as is” is perfectly fine. Yes there are some times that make you just feel “old”, but for the reasons you have stated - he does well. And quite often raises a smile at certain moments! 
Hope you and yours are well, and settled in okay after your relocation.  

Thank you! Hope you and yours are doing well, too, and indeed we fully settled in by now, enjoying our home. Thank you for asking!