reported Altitude Button does not engage

[Nialfb]

Hi Guys

This may be a bug or may be that I'm just a dick! I fly the Ka-50 III, and it is one of my favourite modules, so I understand how autopilot controls work. I recently bought the Mi-8 and it's great fun BUT I cannot get the altitude hold to work in the autopilot.

Before engaging I make sure my altitude is steady and my collective at zero. When I press the button to engage the altitude hold, the button presses but it does not turn green and the altitude hold is not engaged. The other two functions of the autopilot work fine. I have the 'special' options for the Mi-8 set as per the attached.

nullAny ideas on this?

Thanks

Nial

[IrLED]

I experience the same thing.
What was noticed - in mission editor hot start Mi8 has working altitude hold channel
When cold started - channel doesn't turn on.
Double checked the procedure with cold start tutorial, after the start declared COMPLETE the altitude hold channel doesn't engage still.

it is on current open beta 43704

[Nialfb]

Hi IrLED

I just checked this with a hot start and, yes, the altitude hold works. I went back and did a thorough cold start (one minute wait after turning on APU etc.) and the altitude hold doesn't work.I'm not sure what version I'm on but I only downloaded it a couple of days ago so I assume it is right up to date.

Regards

Nial

[Nialfb]

I've done some more testing.This time I ran through the full cold start procedure in the 'Training' sub menu. Altitude button did not work. I then flew the free flight mission from the 'Instant Action' sub menu (the helicopter starts hot). The altitude button worked fine. If I fly a mission from mission editor with the engine hot, the altitude button works. If I fly the same mission but with a cold start aircraft it does not! I can't see that I can test it anymore than that. ED, any comment?

Regards

[Art-J]

I can only confirm these findings, also based on test with cold start training mission, my own cold start mission and Instant free flight mission on Caucasus.

Module manual says the Altitude channel requires pitch&roll channel to be ON and altitude to be above 50 m. Didn't help in my post-cold-start tests, unfortunately. Worked perfectly in hot-start tests, though.

I guess one might try to investigate carefully which exact switches all around the cockpit are ON when hot-start mission begins, compare it to cold start procedure by manual and see what the difference is (if any). I admit I don't fly the Hip often enough to be bothered to do it, but something seems to be amiss with the Alt channel operation indeed.

[Nialfb]

Hi Art-J

I am definitely above 50m and, as far as I know, I have all of the critical systems turned on. The only thing I may not have set for a training mission are the radios. Besides, I followed the start up from cold from the 'training' sub folder. I also followed a video on YouTube from a reliable contributor, vsTerminus. He has a series of training videos specifically for the Mi-8.

 

[Xander8912]

I had the same problem during my last mission, no possible to engage Alt hold. It was a cold start. Not tested in hot start.

[Nialfb]

6 hours ago, Art-J said:

I can only confirm these findings, also based on test with cold start training mission, my own cold start mission and Instant free flight mission on Caucasus.

Module manual says the Altitude channel requires pitch&roll channel to be ON and altitude to be above 50 m. Didn't help in my post-cold-start tests, unfortunately. Worked perfectly in hot-start tests, though.

I guess one might try to investigate carefully which exact switches all around the cockpit are ON when hot-start mission begins, compare it to cold start procedure by manual and see what the difference is (if any). I admit I don't fly the Hip often enough to be bothered to do it, but something seems to be amiss with the Alt channel operation indeed.

Regarding being above 50 metres, I think I am right in saying that, in the hot start Mi-8, you can engage the altitiude hold while on the ground. Not that you would ever want to do that.

[Flappie]

During the autostart procedure, the light comes in right after "VU-3" is switched on (Rectifier 3). As long as one rectifier is switched on, the "Altitude hold" light can be lit.

I'm pretty sure none of you forgot to switch on the 3 rectifiers, which means the answer lies sooner in my track. But I'm not sure when.

Altitude hold.trk

[Nialfb]

On 9/11/2023 at 9:51 PM, Flappie said:

During the autostart procedure, the light comes in right after "VU-3" is switched on (Rectifier 3). As long as one rectifier is switched on, the "Altitude hold" light can be lit.

I'm pretty sure none of you forgot to switch on the 3 rectifiers, which means the answer lies sooner in my track. But I'm not sure when.

Altitude hold.trk 84.37 kB · 0 downloads

I turn on all three rectifiers during my start up procedure.

[Nialfb]

My cold start attached. For some reason my TrackIR didn't follow the mouse very accurately but if you look where I'm looking you'll see the switches I turned on. I didn't set the radio for this excercise. And also apologies for the wobbly take off, I've not been flying this long

 

Mi-8MTV Cold Start.trk

Edited September 13, 2023 by Nialfb

[Flappie]

I can see that it does not lit in your track. I'm not sure what's missing compared to the autostart.

Let's do this the other way around: I read the "Macro_sequencies.lua" (autostart script) and extracted the first part (up to the "VU-3" message, when the button can be lit). Please compare it with your own procedure and see if there's something you forget to do.

Autostart up to VU-3.csv

[LazyBoot]

I was having the same issue, until I tapped the Collective Brake button... Then alt-hold started working for me.

I assume the auto-start presses the collective brake button to account for both settings in the special options for it.

[Nialfb]

17 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

I was having the same issue, until I tapped the Collective Brake button... Then alt-hold started working for me.

I assume the auto-start presses the collective brake button to account for both settings in the special options for it.

Thanks LazyBoot, you are my hero! The 'Collective Clutch Lock/Release Button' is indeed engaged during a cold start! For anyone who hasn't got it bound, it is the round button on the collective. I tested by doing my usual cold start. I took off, no altitude hold. I pressed the Collective Clutch Lock/Release Button - TADA! Altitude hold is working, not that I'll use it HAHAHAHAHA. Okay, so I will not use it much, it's just that not having it work was driving me mad!

Thanks again

Nial

[LazyBoot]

54 minutes ago, Nialfb said:

Thanks LazyBoot, you are my hero! The 'Collective Clutch Lock/Release Button' is indeed engaged during a cold start! For anyone who hasn't got it bound, it is the round button on the collective. I tested by doing my usual cold start. I took off, no altitude hold. I pressed the Collective Clutch Lock/Release Button - TADA! Altitude hold is working, not that I'll use it HAHAHAHAHA. Okay, so I will not use it much, it's just that not having it work was driving me mad!

Thanks again

Nial

Looking a bit more closely at it... It gets depressed if switching to the engineer seat (and probably happens with the gunner as well). So it's the AI that presses it and doesn't release it! 

[Nialfb]

That would make sense becasue I swap from the pilot seat to the engineers seat during startup. I will try dooing the entire startup fro the pilots position and see what happens

I did some testing based on what LazyBoot said in his last post. If I do the complete cold start from the pilots seat, the altitude button works, even while on the ground. As soon as I move to the engineers seat it turns off. Back to the pilot seat, press the 'Collective Clutch Lock' button and the altitude hold works again, except in this instance you can only engage it once off the ground. I don't know if this is expected or correct behaviour. It would be nice if ED could say, one way or another.

Thanks again LazyBoot.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Nialfb

[Art-J]

Good catch! It only confirms that more things got messed up when multicrew got implemented and AI now does things which it shouldn't do (and overrides game special options) when player is switching between seats. I already started one related bug thread in "Controls" section. Looks like there's need for another one, unless Flappie reports this one first.

[AlphaOneSix]

It seems like it's treating the collective friction clutch release button as a toggle. It should act like the trimmer button on the cyclic. In other words, it's only pressed when the collective is being moved, in order to remove the friction that holds it in place. Also, you should always be able to engage it on the ground.

[MAXsenna]

@AlphaOneSix

Makes sense. I never have any issues, and I use the "hydro lock, always press to move collective" or something setting under special. 

[DeMonteur]

 

On 9/17/2023 at 7:43 AM, AlphaOneSix said:

It seems like it's treating the collective friction clutch release button as a toggle. It should act like the trimmer button on the cyclic. In other words, it's only pressed when the collective is being moved, in order to remove the friction that holds it in place. Also, you should always be able to engage it on the ground.

That not how it suppose to work. Collective friction clutch release button disengates the altitude hold of the autopilot and only way to reengage it is to press the altitude channel button on control box. 

[AlphaOneSix]

1 hour ago, DeMonteur said:

 

That not how it suppose to work. Collective friction clutch release button disengates the altitude hold of the autopilot and only way to reengage it is to press the altitude channel button on control box. 

Admittedly, I am far better at how it works in real life than in-game. But I don't think you understood what I was saying. Leaving the altitude channel completely out of the equation, I'm saying that in order to move the collective, you should press the friction release button on the collective, then move the collective, then release the friction release button. I am fully aware that pressing the friction release button turns off the altitude channel. I was referring to what the AI is doing. The AI appears to be holding the friction release button down the entire time, preventing you, as the player, from engaging the altitude channel.

[DeMonteur]

1 hour ago, AlphaOneSix said:

Admittedly, I am far better at how it works in real life than in-game. But I don't think you understood what I was saying. Leaving the altitude channel completely out of the equation, I'm saying that in order to move the collective, you should press the friction release button on the collective, then move the collective, then release the friction release button. I am fully aware that pressing the friction release button turns off the altitude channel. I was referring to what the AI is doing. The AI appears to be holding the friction release button down the entire time, preventing you, as the player, from engaging the altitude channel.

Yes. I didnt fully understand that you referring the AI. Anyway this behaviour of AP is definitly not correct.

[DeMonteur]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:35 PM, IrLED said:

I experience the same thing.
What was noticed - in mission editor hot start Mi8 has working altitude hold channel
When cold started - channel doesn't turn on.
Double checked the procedure with cold start tutorial, after the start declared COMPLETE the altitude hold channel doesn't engage still.

it is on current open beta 43704

I find a workaround. It seems that hot started helicopter is with collective brake pressed by default when you are hot in air or cold on ground. If you press the button Collective Clutch Lock/Release Button, it will release that button and Alt channel will start working. For cold helicopter you need a bit of playing and maybe pressing the Collective clutch lock button and AP button in same time to start working.

[Flappie]

Sorry for the delay guys, testing 2.9 got me pretty busy. It's now reported.

Thanks for the group effort!

[Evg85]

 

Am I the only one who stopped turning on the autopilot altitude channel after the last update to the stable version? The altitude channel does not turn on both on the ground, after the standard launch procedure, and in the air, during steady straight flight. Before the latest update, I played this module in early November of this year and everything worked fine, although the altitude channel indicator glowed very dimly, barely noticeable.