ALV/CSV still not working proprely

[grim_reaper68]

Hi

Just tested the Gazelle after new OB update, and the autopilot modes aren't fixed yet. Is it WIP? Hope it will be fixed soon. 

[Sindar]

Is ALV/CSV not working again?   https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.8.6.41066/  Everything was working before this update! It's been almost five months. It can't be flown properly until now? 

[grim_reaper68]

Yep in fact, since the last major update of the Gazelle, the autohoover is broken. The Gazelle is unable to stabilise correctly. It swing s from left to right. I tried to stabilise it by trimming the Gazelle to a stable hover but it's the same. It's like the CSV overcorrect or give too much input to stabilise. 

[Ramsay]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:19 PM, grim_reaper68 said:

Just tested the Gazelle after new OB update, and the autopilot modes aren't fixed yet. Is it WIP?

 

5 hours ago, Sindar said:

Is ALV/CSV not working again?

ALV/CSV autopilot modes are WIP, the dev's do not recommend their use at this time.

[Sindar]

15 часов назад, Ramsay сказал:

ALV/CSV autopilot modes are WIP, the dev's do not recommend their use at this time.

Not recommended to use, but they are selling this module at a 50% discount .  This is very suspicious 

My opinion this is a critical bug for helicopter with AT missiles. Why else would it be needed without altitude hold and hover mode? But the developer knows more about the problem. So I will wait. While this module is dusting on the far strip of the airfield.

[grim_reaper68]

It's possible to hover with appropriate trimming. It's also possible to shoot with the hot missile while moving. 

https://youtu.be/NHbImMxGCCs?si=8QyfIEfLAq5kzlAS

Edited October 23, 2023 by grim_reaper68

[Sindar]

And if you add a sail and oars, you can shoot from the water. 

[Polychop Simulations]

We hear you, and as has been said before both the now more realistic auto hover and slave to sight features are still being worked on. The problem we face is that the auto hover on the real Gazelle is much more limited to what you are probably used to with the pre-fm update. People have been clear in that they wanted a more realistic Gazelle module which is what we're delivering on. This makes it a bit harder to control as well as we threw out some less realistic options such as the near perfect auto hover that also controlled your pedals and collective. The CVS mode, auto hover, on the real gazelle does not take control over your rudders and collective. That said, ALV mode, more commonly known as slave to sight mode, does take control over your pedals but is not implemented yet. I think when ALV is fully implemented it will be easier for you to achieve what you want.. but you will still have control over the collective. 

It's a work in progress and we work as fast as we can. However, I do want to add that the old hover and pop-up thing you could do in the old Gazelle with the magic auto-hover is not the best way to go in the Gazelle either way. Shooting HOT3's from hover was abandoned when the more common AO's switched from the lushy Fulda Gap to the Middle-East where shooting HOT's on the run became the new standard. And while harder to pull off as for now you'd have the workload of both crewmembers, with some practice this is actually very much doable on both the L and M with the latter allowing you a bit better situational awareness where the L will have you heads down in to the periscope. Not only does it mitigate the lack of a fully functional CVS and ALV mode, it will give you a much better survival rate in DCS where ground units will try to put a 9M119 Svir/Refleks in your face whenever you hover within range. 

I know it is not ideal, but know we're looking in to how we want to proceed with CVS and ALV modes. It is a time consuming task as it is a fully simulated mechanic rather than a stop all physics solution. 

[grim_reaper68]

Ok. Does it mean that the CSV just helps to hover instead of taking control and maintain the Gazelle on a steady position? I now better understand it. In fact the first FM version , was easy to use as the auto hover and the slave function works "perfectly". I can understand that pilots are frustrated that the difference between the easy FM and CSV/ALV and now. It's harder to manage, but if the DCS Gazelle CSV mode in know near to the real one, so  it's now a real new challenge to learn to fly with it. People always want to have the most realistic FM and weapon systems in DCS, so it's time to trust in the devs of this module (even if some functions are WIP or needed to be tuned). Don't forget that the Gazelle was born in 1967 and don't have the technology of some more modern heli like the AH64 and have no George or Pertovich to make things easier. With a correct trim on the 3 axis, it's manageable to shoot with the Hot (on the M version, not tried the L version with the persicope). I can imagine that in a campaign, where you need to search the target, it could be hard in solo, and even easier in multicrew, but isn't it that what we, virtual pilots are looking for? New challenges!  Nothing is perfect  in this world, I'm not a module developper, but as i can imagine it's not an easy thing to do. And it's not easy and quiet impossible to satisfy everyone.

Of course it's not easy for a solo pilot (I'm from those one), and it would be easier on multicrew, so maybe could there be a compromise between full realistic FM, and a little bit more "cheated" one, with the old "auto hover" where the Gazelle was balancing from left to right. Maybe an option in the menu or could both CSV models be activated, one in solo  flight (easy CSV) and the other (real CSV) in multicrew flight, so everybody would be happy. 

On my side, I'm training the use the Gazelle as it is, in missions that I created,  so i know where to search the targets, but also to learn to "hover" it by correctly triming it (don't forget that you can trim it on the 3 axis), and shot while flying. The Viviane camera is incredibly stable, so it's quiet easy to aim a target once you've found it.

I'm glad and grateful for this wonderful module. Thanks for the great job you've done and you will do in the future. 

[jef32]

9 hours ago, grim_reaper68 said:

 

Of course it's not easy for a solo pilot (I'm from those one), and it would be easier on multicrew, so maybe could there be a compromise between full realistic FM, and a little bit more "cheated" one, with the old "auto hover" where the Gazelle was balancing from left to right. Maybe an option in the menu or could both CSV models be activated, one in solo  flight (easy CSV) and the other (real CSV) in multicrew flight, so everybody would be happy. 

 

No. A compromise isn't available for me. Did you ever see a real Gazelle going to fight with only one person on board ? No ! To fight, a Gazelle needs 2 persons. And during the fight moment, the pilot is in charge to ..pilot and the weapon officer in charge to targeting and launching the missiles HOT. So, behind our computers, except in MP sessions, we are alone and when we take the weapon officer seat, we must not have the charge to maintain the helicopter in a stationnary position, even for the yaw axis. I admit totally that before, the FM of the Gazelle was a "little bit" too easy and it's a good thing that polychop has made this FM more realistic except the auto-hover function which should have remained as before to compensate the fact that we are alone in our virtual cockpit and we must assume two roles. Since the FM update, due to the auto-hover change, my Gazelle stays in my DCS hangar and I don't use it anymore and I estimate to have lost money. So, until the return of the auto-hover like it was before, I've decided to not buy a DCS product anymore, even if the F-4 makes me want.

Edited November 2, 2023 by jef32

[Volator]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:40 PM, Polychop Simulations said:

People have been clear in that they wanted a more realistic Gazelle module which is what we're delivering on.

Seems to me PC is overreacting here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my assumption people wanted more realistic flight dynamics, not a removal of those (albeit unrealistic) little helpers that helped fly a two-crewmembers-helicopter as a single player. If you provided a solution like Petro/George/Jester that would be fine, but as long as you don't offer that solution, there have to be some sort of "cheats" to keep the helicopter stable while the player is working the sight. And I really do want to simulate Cold War stationary pop-up attacks on tanks, even if that's not the go-to tactic in Africa nowadays. 

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

41 minutes ago, Volator said:

Seems to me PC is overreacting here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my assumption people wanted more realistic flight dynamics, not a removal of those (albeit unrealistic) little helpers that helped fly a two-crewmembers-helicopter as a single player. If you provided a solution like Petro/George/Jester that would be fine, but as long as you don't offer that solution, there have to be some sort of "cheats" to keep the helicopter stable while the player is working the sight. And I really do want to simulate Cold War stationary pop-up attacks on tanks, even if that's not the go-to tactic in Africa nowadays. 

Autopilot will come back, just give it time. We are a very small team and the Kiowa is highest priority. Autopilot is my highest Gazelle priority, as soon as I can work on it.

[MAXsenna]

@grim_reaper68
If you by chance have a second/spare joystick, map it to the sights and it's super easy to shoot while flying. Trim is not even really needed.

@jef32
Neither Polychop nor Heatblur are ED you know. It's a pity you've put it in the hangar, while practice makes perfect. It's not really that hard. Much easier than initially practicing AAR until it clicks. Of course it depends on what controls are available to you.

@Volator
I'm one of those who wants it realistic by all means. I do agree with you that the community probably asked for a more realistic FM and not removal of the easy hover. Why not both? Have the option of the hover "cheat" in the special menu and the Mission Editor.

@Polychop Simulations @Kinkkujuustovoileipä

I'm looking forward to all changes, I love it so far and have great fun. Is there a way to turn off the sight in the L? It ruins FPS on older GPUs.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk


 

Edited November 2, 2023 by MAXsenna

[grim_reaper68]

@MAXsenna I made a try with a broken saitek farming side panel, and it works fine. Now I'm looknig to use it and modify it to have an MFCD and a stick. I noticed that my warthog HOTAS from TM, there is a problem with the ministick when i try to aim horizontally. It seems that I am not the only one with that problem. The stick of the farming side panel works fine on all axis... Hope i can make my personnal MFCD/ stick soon. In fact the Gazelle is a great module despite that some persons aren't happy yet. 

@Polychop SimulationsNo problem, take your time, creating a module is not an easy thing. It's not a critical problem. I can understand that you have a lot to do. The Gazelle is a great module. And as MAXsenna say, with a second stick, flying and shooting is manageable. Of course training is needed, but in my opinion every module needs a time to learn to use it perfectly. 

[jef32]

MAXsenna, I know that Polychop or Heatblur are not ED but when I bought the Gazelle, I didn't pay directly to Polychop but to ED. So I consider ED responsible of the work of their subcontractors.

[DimSim]

I think related to this issue... autopilot status. There is an Autopilot master button on the collective.  When I press it, nothing appears to happen, and there is no indication on the instruments or the control indicator visual of the auto pilot's active status.

Is this feature merely not implemented at present?

[Polychop Simulations]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:04 PM, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

Autopilot will come back, just give it time. We are a very small team and the Kiowa is highest priority. Autopilot is my highest Gazelle priority, as soon as I can work on it.

@DimSim See this reply by Kinkku, he's one of the coders at Polychop. 

[jef32]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:04 PM, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

Autopilot will come back, just give it time. We are a very small team and the Kiowa is highest priority. Autopilot is my highest Gazelle priority, as soon as I can work on it.

That's exactly the political commercial that I hate. We all have bought the Gazelle, so the Gazelle willn't bring money anymore to Polychop. And today, when I read what you wrote, it doesn't matter for Polychop if the customers can't use the Gazelle in a fighting condition, the priority is the Kiowa because the Kiowa will bring you money ( not mine, I can assure you, when I see how you don't respect the customers having bought your product with complete confidence). What I would love to read from you would be: " The auto-hover of the Gazelle is our highest priority before continuing to develop the Kiowa"

Now, I know that an expensive product I've bought to you some years ago is now useless for an indefinite time because you're prefering to do more lucrative work, in the total disrespect of your old customers.

Edited November 6, 2023 by jef32

[borchi_2b]

21 hours ago, jef32 said:

That's exactly the political commercial that I hate. We all have bought the Gazelle, so the Gazelle willn't bring money anymore to Polychop. And today, when I read what you wrote, it doesn't matter for Polychop if the customers can't use the Gazelle in a fighting condition, the priority is the Kiowa because the Kiowa will bring you money ( not mine, I can assure you, when I see how you don't respect the customers having bought your product with complete confidence). What I would love to read from you would be: " The auto-hover of the Gazelle is our highest priority before continuing to develop the Kiowa"

Now, I know that an expensive product I've bought to you some years ago is now useless for an indefinite time because you're prefering to do more lucrative work, in the total disrespect of your old customers.

 

Thanks a lot for your concearn. We will take your opinion into concideration.