Has anyone tried the Vp Force Rhino?

[Cowboy10uk]

Hi all, I hope everyone is enjoying 2.9.     I’ve just been wandering about on the net, and I’ve come across a FFB joystick base called the VP Rhino, it appears to be a one man band and only available via their discord site and it does appear there is quite a waiting list. 
 

I’ve seen a number of videos on YouTube showing the base off with DCS, and it appears to be natively supported with effects that as a Helo pilot I could only dream off.  Proper force trim, rotor vortex, airflow etc.   

 

However and this is in no way a slight of those who have put the videos out there, but I haven’t seen anything from the our mainstream flightsim content creators about it, and I’m struggling to find and real reviews. 
 

So as the few videos about it, do tend to show off DCS, I figured I would ask you guys direct, whether anyone here actually has one or uses it?  
 

if so, is it worth the €800 to order, is it plug and play, would you recommend it etc? 
 

As stated I mainly fly Helos, but I do enjoy fast jets from time to time, and I adore my ww2 warbirds.  

oh yes regarding fast jets, just curious.    Would it be possible to simulate the F16 base on it, I.e. very very minimum movement from centre? 

Currently I have a WarBRD base, and while it’s working fine, if there is a good FFB base available instead to allow me to use proper force trim, then all the better.

 

hoping for some reply’s, it certainly looks promising indeed.

 

Cowboy10uk

 

 

 

[motoadve]

Also interested

 

 

[Scott-S6]

No, you wouldn't be able to simulate the F16 force sensing base. It measures displacement.

[Vakarian]

Videos have hard time portraying the actual benefits of the FFB base because it's in the feel, rather than motion. Hope I don't get banned for this, but the difference is similar to watching "certain videos" and then doing it live. It's not really comparable.

Is it worth the money and wait, I'd say 110% yes. The amount of on-the-fly customization is immense and with the additional TelemFFB you can get even more haptic feedback than is coded in the modules themselves.

Yes, mimicking the F-16 type of controls (pressure sensing) is very hard/nigh impossible due to physics, but everything else is right there, few mouse clicks away.

Join the discord, you'll see that there's 230+ happy users and base your judgement on that.

[zcaa0g]

Waiting for Virpil or VKB.  That's their next stop most likely.  Not fond of the plywood base and exposed gears and belts.

[Dragon1-1]

On 11/9/2023 at 11:33 AM, Vakarian said:

Yes, mimicking the F-16 type of controls (pressure sensing) is very hard/nigh impossible due to physics, but everything else is right there, few mouse clicks away.

One way to do it would be to use the base itself to create the force curve and hard stops, then use a separate force sensing mount for actual inputs.

[Insonia]

56 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

One way to do it would be to use the base itself to create the force curve and hard stops, then use a separate force sensing mount for actual inputs.

Those puny motors may not have enough torque to stop humans from exceeding the stop position before the loading cell has adequate force-sensing ranges. Using holding torque as a stop/lock draws maximum current, which is very impractical for long periods of use. while you are burning your motor and power supply out.

Then the motor torque control will create a lot of jittery/spikes that you may able feel or bearly, but the load cells can measure and tell the difference.

then you may have to apply a ( algorithm or hardware )filter to smooth the value., which can be quite ugly and inconsistent.

 

A bolt mechanical lock or limit gimble range. should be simple and better

 

[lefuneste01]

Hello, I'm really happy with my DIY version of Rhino. It works well in DCS, IL2 and MSF2020 (even if I did not try it yet), using the "telemFFB" tool provided for free. This tool provide some addtitional fancy effects in DCS (eg : vibration when firing...).

Especially with Helicopter for the force trim, this is a must have.

But I understood the delay to get a Rhino "on the shelves" are very very very long.

The only negative feedback I read was a guy who wanted more force than the current version. It's possible with the DIY kit, but motor will be quite huge and personaly I do not feel the need.

Edited November 11, 2023 by lefuneste01

[f14billy]

In my opinion it is the best consumer grade option for FFB right now in a relatively compact size. My advice would be to get in the waiting list as soon as possible. It will take months before you get one but it is totally worth the money and wait. Mine took 8 months of waiting. You don't have to pay for it until yours is almost ready to be shipped. The queue currently is over 500 people but many drop out so the wait isn't as bad as it may seem.

Edited November 14, 2023 by f14billy

[f14billy]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:06 AM, lefuneste01 said:

Hello, I'm really happy with my DIY version of Rhino. It works well in DCS, IL2 and MSF2020 (even if I did not try it yet), using the "telemFFB" tool provided for free. This tool provide some addtitional fancy effects in DCS (eg : vibration when firing...).

Especially with Helicopter for the force trim, this is a must have.

But I understood the delay to get a Rhino "on the shelves" are very very very long.

The only negative feedback I read was a guy who wanted more force than the current version. It's possible with the DIY kit, but motor will be quite huge and personaly I do not feel the need.

 

The bigger motors would definitely allow you to keep the force in a dogfight pulling G's without it overheating for longer but like you said.. it would be very bulky and impractical in my setup. I'm very happy with the way it performs as it is in DCS. If it overheats it gradually drops the force to about half and it can handle that force indefinitely in my testing. Still useable and once it cools down full force is restored.

In MSFS since I'm not pulling G's it performs flawlessly without any overheating. The configuration software and the extra telemFFB program are excellent.

Edited November 14, 2023 by f14billy

[BigBANGtheory]

 

[Cowboy10uk]

Well guys.   It’s Here. 
 

I added myself to the waiting list about a week after my posted on here after doing more research, and got my notification a few weeks ago that my order was ready for dispatch. 
 

Currently sat at my neighbours waiting for me to collect after work as naturally it turned up while I was away on holiday.

 

Thanks for all the advice, can’t wait to get this all setup and tested.   Just in time for the Kiowa as well. 

[Dedbeat]

How is it?

[corbu1]

Am 3.6.2024 um 09:09 schrieb Cowboy10uk:

Well guys.   It’s Here. 
 

I added myself to the waiting list about a week after my posted on here after doing more research, and got my notification a few weeks ago that my order was ready for dispatch. 
 

Currently sat at my neighbours waiting for me to collect after work as naturally it turned up while I was away on holiday.

 

Thanks for all the advice, can’t wait to get this all setup and tested.   Just in time for the Kiowa as well. 

Welcome onboard !!

[SVgamer72]

FWIW....

I 3d printed and built a DIY kit a couple months back, and it is amazing. I haven't had a FFB stick since the original CH ForceFX back in the 1990s, but always wanted one again. Anyone who races with a FFB wheel knows how much FFB adds to a sim. I saved maybe $200 (and months of waiting) at best when you factor in the cost of the bill of materials. You could maybe save more hunting down the cheapest prices, but good old Amazon had everything to me within a week. I have been 3d printing since 2019, so I had a head start and a better than decent printer at my disposal (Bambu X1).

The Rhino can output a lot of "force" relative to sprung controllers, but more importantly varying the stick forces is a game changer. You can have a stiff spring and a friction clutch in Virpil/VKB sticks, but you can't "feel" the changes in forces in the sim. Flying the recently released F-4E is phenomenal. You can feel the changes in stick forces as speed changes subsonic to transonic, and you can "feel" the AOA without having to check the gauges in a dogfight. Warbirds are just as fun with stick forces varying with speed, and helos are night and day better.

Another thing I noticed is the onset of visual and audio queues in most modules telling you when you are pushing AOA limits or are near a stall lags behind what the airframe is doing (or my eyes/ears don't pick it up until it is more developed), and the Rhino will let you feel it before you see it on the screen. I am probably not describing it very well, but my flying improved overnight after decades over controlling with stick inputs without realizing it. For example a P-47 in a dive will have a progressively stiffer "pull" automatically causing me to gently pull back vs yanking it back bleeding energy due to excessive G loading. A spring/clutch setup can't give you that kind of feedback for energy management.

The free TeleMFFB software adds additional feedback too based on hooking into DCS telemetry. Things such as countermeasures and weapon releases lightly "thunk", guns/cannons vibrate in the grip, and there is shake/rumble at the edges of a stall, when airbrakes are deployed,  etc. Lots of subtle and easily customizable (with sliders) effects that really add to immersion.

Is it a must have? No, and if you mostly run fly-by-wire modules, you might think all the other effects are not worth the investment and arguably would not be wrong. It isn't cheap, but I am 100% satisfied with the investment. 

[Cowboy10uk]

On 6/13/2024 at 11:21 PM, Dedbeat said:

How is it?

Mindblowing. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 6/19/2024 at 6:39 PM, Cowboy10uk said:

Mindblowing. 

Great to hear! Mine just shipped, and I can't wait to install it into my pit! 

[Vakarian]

This part of the wait is the hardest  Get ready for it. If you fly helos, you'll never want to go back to sprung bases

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

My Rhino arrived earlier today, and I have been playing around with it all afternoon.

O H    M Y    W O R D !!!! 

 

I'm in love! 

[MAXsenna]

My Rhino arrived earlier today, and I have been playing around with it all afternoon.

O H    M Y    W O R D !!!! 
 
I'm in love! 

Congrats! You deserve it J!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Congrats! You deserve it J!
 

Few things beat the feeling of lining up behind a carrier for the first time in ages in an F-14, with a brand new and improved setup and finishing with an (OK)_SLOX_3 (silly LSO) 

[MAXsenna]

Few things beat the feeling of lining up behind a carrier for the first time in ages in an F-14, with a brand new and improved setup and finishing with an (OK)_SLOX_3 (silly LSO) 

Now, go and trim other aircraft. You'll love what HB did with the Phantom. I have a feeling you won't so easily rip the wings of the F-5 anymore, if you ever did. Wait till you feel the airflow over the wings in the warbirds or the trainers. And like others have mentioned. Trimming helicopters... Oh me oh my... Or, just turn the force trim off in the Huey or Kiowa... Your loved ones might not see you in a while. Have a good one!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

40 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

if you ever did

I did not, in fact.

I tried a few other aircraft as well but the FFB effects seem to bug out if you swap from one aircraft to the next within the same DCS session.

Tomorrow I’ll see if turning off the unit and then back on perhaps helps (if you have any practical tips and hints feel fee to send me a pm, so we don’t derail this thread).

I faffed around a bit with the software today but then I reverted to the default settings so I can get used to that first…

[ARM505]

I got mine today. It was surprisingly easy to set up. The software seems excellent, everything worked first try with my Virpil stick and extension. Helicopters are great now, the smooth feeling and excellent damping is really impressive on all aircraft - some of the modern ones are of course a bit weird with default settings - for example, the F16 is very light in the pitch axis, but stiffer in the roll axis....and of course is completely unrealistic with anything but a dedicated F16 stick anyway. The F4 is quite 'light' as well with default settings. All force can be immediately ramped up on the fly with the software, or (even easier) with the rotary controller on the stick. I haven't had anything go wrong, including switching between all types (warbird, cold war, modern, helo) in a single mission.

 

Anyway, more playing to do, there are a lot of settings to play with. I haven't even touched that TelemFFB thing yet. It's expensive, and the Rhino will probably remain pretty niche given that it's not from a major hardware manufacturer (the build quality is great in my opinion, no issues with the print/box at all, very neat). And as mentioned, I've found the software to be excellent. It remains to be seen what Moza/Winwing/Virpil do, but this is a great product and I've been impressed so far.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

It seems all major manufacturers are planning to jump on board the FFB train now that the patent headaches are gone. It will likely take a few more years at least to get manufacturing going and getting the software just right. Eventually, competition should pull the prices down.

The Rhino is extremely impressive, and well worth the investment for anyone serious about flight-simming.