user error DSMS releasing bombs from STA 5 & STA 7 in PAIRS only releases STA 7 weapon

[VladimirSputnik]

Testing with Mk84s and Mk82LDs (including 3 on TER) showed when setting PAIRS only STA 7 releases the weapon on pickle

Subsequent pickle releases STA 5 weapon

For 3 Mk82s on STA 7 it releases 1 bomb per pickle and then only moves over to STA 5's 3 weapons, creating a 3-bomb asymmetry

 

Off topic question - are most UFC and other functions like NWS supposed to be inhibited during weapons upload (on LOAD PAGE)?

I've found the functions are accessible again only after the upload is complete.

[ASAP]

2 hours ago, VladimirSputnik said:

Testing with Mk84s and Mk82LDs (including 3 on TER) showed when setting PAIRS only STA 7 releases the weapon on pickle

Subsequent pickle releases STA 5 weapon

For 3 Mk82s on STA 7 it releases 1 bomb per pickle and then only moves over to STA 5's 3 weapons, creating a 3-bomb asymmetry

This is the correct real world functionality. Try it when the TERs are on 4 and 8 and it should work just fine. 

[Yurgon]

3 hours ago, ASAP said:

This is the correct real world functionality. Try it when the TERs are on 4 and 8 and it should work just fine. 

This!

Depending on the intended effect on the target, a RPL SGL with sufficiently short spacing might also do the trick - that works with all stations.

5 hours ago, VladimirSputnik said:

Off topic question - are most UFC and other functions like NWS supposed to be inhibited during weapons upload (on LOAD PAGE)?

I've found the functions are accessible again only after the upload is complete.

Good question!

I'm not sure about NWS, but that sounds like something the pilot shouldn't touch while people are working on the jet. It would make sense NWS is prohibited during weapons upload; there might be a safety pin that's inserted (or never pulled) before weapons upload. But this is 100% guesswork on my end.

I'm not aware of UFC functions being blocked during weapon upload. Do you have a concrete example of something not working while (re-) loading is in progress?

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Yurgon said:

I'm not sure about NWS, but that sounds like something the pilot shouldn't touch while people are working on the jet. It would make sense NWS is prohibited during weapons upload; there might be a safety pin that's inserted (or never pulled) before weapons upload. But this is 100% guesswork on my end.

I'm not aware of UFC functions being blocked during weapon upload. Do you have a concrete example of something not working while (re-) loading is in progress?

A lot of the cockpit buttons are nonfunctional during the LOAD delay, at least all the MFCD OSB's IIRC.  I think I also recall the NWS button not working.

[ASAP]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:37 PM, jaylw314 said:

A lot of the cockpit buttons are nonfunctional during the LOAD delay, at least all the MFCD OSB's IIRC.  I think I also recall the NWS button not working.

I know when you hit load all it disables all the HOTAS and MFCD buttons for a short time. I don't if its the DSMS loading specifically that is causing that. Either way, as long as all the functionality comes back after the load is complete there isnt an issue.

[VladimirSputnik]

Thanks, I meant the LOAD of weapons through the LOAD page and not the actual arming of the aircraft, but can you confirm that it inhibits those functions in real life as well?

The issue I had was when you completed the re-arm and refuel and want to start your taxi and quickly press the LOAD ALL OSB the NWS does not work and you have to use differential braking.  Quite a surprise if you're not paying attention with other traffic taxiing etc.

I appreciate the feedback, thanks

Regarding the STA5 & 7 issue, When you load max Mk82s (22 bombs) there are TERs on 3,4,5,7,8&9 and bombing in PAIRS with CCIP, 2 at a time, works fine up until you reach Sta 5&7 and then they release single from STA7 instead of 1 each from STA5&7

If that is how it works in real life, I gladly accept it, but it does not make sense to me.

Thanks anyway - never argue with engineers

[VladimirSputnik]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:13 AM, Yurgon said:

I'm not aware of UFC functions being blocked during weapon upload. Do you have a concrete example of something not working while (re-) loading is in progress?

Apologies, I revise my original second question:  on further testing I noticed UFC presses still work, but reflects on CDU screen since MFDs are inhibited during DSMS LOAD. What does not work are the MFD pages, If you press LOAD ALL, no other page functionality seems to work on either MFD until LOAD is complete. So there is some dead time to do something mechanical.

Sometimes the LOAD takes a while and you can't edit waypoints etc, however the workaround is to use the CDU in that time.

[ASAP]

51 minutes ago, VladimirSputnik said:

 

Regarding the STA5 & 7 issue, When you load max Mk82s (22 bombs) there are TERs on 3,4,5,7,8&9 and bombing in PAIRS with CCIP, 2 at a time, works fine up until you reach Sta 5&7 and then they release single from STA7 instead of 1 each from STA5&7

If that is how it works in real life, I gladly accept it, but it does not make sense to me.

 

I can't remember the exact reason, but that is in fact how it's supposed to work. I suspect its because those pylons are very close together and they don't want to simultaneously release them for fear of bombs colliding in flight

Edited December 2, 2023 by ASAP

[VladimirSputnik]

Makes sense, thanks.

Still one of the best modelled machines in DCS

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, VladimirSputnik said:

Apologies, I revise my original second question:  on further testing I noticed UFC presses still work, but reflects on CDU screen since MFDs are inhibited during DSMS LOAD. What does not work are the MFD pages, If you press LOAD ALL, no other page functionality seems to work on either MFD until LOAD is complete. So there is some dead time to do something mechanical.

Sometimes the LOAD takes a while and you can't edit waypoints etc, however the workaround is to use the CDU in that time.

If you LOAD DSMS instead of LOAD ALL, it takes about 5 seconds vs 15 seconds

[Yurgon]

1 hour ago, ASAP said:

I suspect its because those pylons are very close together and they don't want to simultaneously release them for fear of bombs colliding in flight

Yup, I'm pretty sure I read on the forum before that this is the exact reason: To ensure proper minimum spacing/separation between bombs, stations 5 and 7 can not release in pairs (and 5+6 or 6+7 should not be loaded simultaneously anyway).

2 hours ago, VladimirSputnik said:

The issue I had was when you completed the re-arm and refuel and want to start your taxi and quickly press the LOAD ALL OSB the NWS does not work and you have to use differential braking.  Quite a surprise if you're not paying attention with other traffic taxiing etc.

In DCS we can certainly do as we like.

IRL pilots wouldn't start to taxi while performing important steps on the avionics. I think that's a complete non-issue: while DSMS (or any of the other items) is being loaded (aka transferred from the data cartridge, that we don't yet have in DCS), pilots wouldn't do much else and most definitely wouldn't taxi. If you look at somewhat official checklists, these steps are pretty far apart, and after LOAD ALL pilots will of course confirm that everything was loaded okay and there are no errors.

Also, taxi-out is usually accompanied by a quick brake-check and a quick wiggle of the nose wheel to ensure all these are working fine. In my squad we once had a pilot bump into the tail of another aircraft during a bit of a hold-up on the taxiway because his rudder pedal toe brakes weren't working or there was a controller conflict or whatever. IRL it could be a hydraulic issue within the brakes, so always ensure critical systems are working before you need them.

Fiddling with the displays during taxi, that's a great way to damage millions of dollars worth of equipment and create a safety hazard.

Again, in DCS we can do whatever we like, but I find that many steps out of real life checklists actually translate well to DCS, though the reason for failure might be different (hydraulics leak vs. controller conflict, for instance).

[VladimirSputnik]

Well said, I am satisfied

We can close this thread

Thanks a mil