Full Fidelity Rafale 🇫🇷

[Col. GALAXY]

Hello, 

My dream is that the French Rafale C/B and M come to DCSas a Full Fidelity Module…

I hope a dev will consider this request !

Also, it would be incredible to have a fifth gen fighter like de f35 in full fidelity

Fly safe

 

Edited January 10 by Col. GALAXY

[Furiz]

Long time wish for many people here.

[IR.Clutch]

It's probably bound to happen. When you retire as a real or virtual pilot and the documentation and manuals for the airframe will be de-classified.

[Evoman]

This is not the first time this request has come up. Check out the below thread for some interesting info on the topic.

And in reference to the F-35 you have to take into consideration that those aircraft have a ton of classified data as is while its in service.  Plus another 20-30 years after its retired for that data to possibly be declassified. Then on top of that Lockheed Martin happens to own the majority of the data rights to the F-35. Which has caused a monopoly on who can service certain system on it. Which is another reason why the Air Force has already been looking for a replacement. See the below article for the full story.

So its going to be a very long wait before the F-35 becomes feasible to simulate for DCS.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/avoiding-f-35-acquisition-malpractice-aim-of-next-gen-air-dominance-fighter

 

 

 

[F-2]

Rafale would be cool. Years ago there was a Rafale sim being developed by an engineer who worked on the real thing. Ended up running into licensing issues but it was supported by the French navy who planned to use it as a training sim.

interview here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070324213332/http://www.france-simulation.com/articles/interview/interview_6.htm
 

I have the 70 some page manual for the sim. Also have a thesis on the M88 with thrust curves, a technical book on the Rafale’s carrier qualification and tons of what I guess are white papers on the aircraft’s radar, mission computer, and other systems.

 

[Furiz]

There was a petition as well in this thread:

 

Btw this other simulator has official Rafale so I guess it will come to DCS as well, but as DCS is much more detailed and realistic we will probably have to be much more patient. And I can bet it would be in top of the sales.

Edited January 14 by Furiz

[Dr.Cure]

As a big fan of the rafale and the f35, I like this idea, however most people were aware that these aircrafts are quite new and fully classified, the only best bet is using the FC3 as the base for the mod, similar to Cuesta Rafale.

Likewise, I'm still wondering that MSFS rafale and f35 are quite worthy of their model and cockpit texture, which of course hoping that these textures would be implemented in FC3 based mods as well

But as for the f35, I was hoping for its mod one day (even it if was based on FC3) since I've been wanting it for quite a while (I'm not talking about external model only but the cockpits layout as well)

Maybe if you're lucky and demand are in need, the community will try to recreate one like the case of the A4 Skyhawk mod

 

[Furiz]

16 hours ago, Dr.Cure said:

As a big fan of the rafale and the f35, I like this idea, however most people were aware that these aircrafts are quite new and fully classified

Well there is more or less 13 year difference in introduction between the two, Rafale introduction was 2001 while F-35B was introduced in 2015, big gap there. But 2001 Rafale was F1 with no Air to Ground capability so my guess is that F2 version (which had AG capability) and onwards would be more interesting for the player base.

Rafale F2 was first delivered to their airforce in 2006, as far as I understand, which would be most interesting I guess since its about the same era as our Viper, Hornet, F-15E suite 3?, Apache etc.

As for demand, you can bet its huge for Rafale as it is for many other gen4 fighters out there but I guess for those planes it is very hard to get the documentation or it is too expensive to get the license. Either way demand is there.

At the moment if you want fox3 capable or TGP capable full fidelity plane you have to go US or only other option is Jeff. MiG-29 coming and it is great but no fox3 or TGP, same with M2000C so modern era still doesn't have much alternatives.

We can only express our wishes like this and hope for the best.

 

[falcon_120]

Well i would love a mirage 2000-5/-9 or even mirage 2000N. Thats a 4th gen fighter with TGP and Fox3 with probably more accesible documentation.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Chimera]

The true advantages of both the Rafale and F-35 won't be accurately simulated in DCS in its current or near future state with regards to RCS, AESA radars and very sensitive EW and jamming capabilities, unfortunately DCS doesn't scratch the surface of some of these aspects and for good reason - due to their classified nature. Add on to that, the fact that Dassault is threatening cease and desists to anyone simulating highly sensitive material that they produce. 

[F-2]

25 minutes ago, Chimera said:

The true advantages of both the Rafale and F-35 won't be accurately simulated in DCS in its current or near future state with regards to RCS, AESA radars and very sensitive EW and jamming capabilities, unfortunately DCS doesn't scratch the surface of some of these aspects and for good reason - due to their classified nature. Add on to that, the fact that Dassault is threating cease and desists to anyone simulating highly sensitive material that they produce. 

The Rafale F1 F2 and F3 used a PESA radar. As for RCS it’s not a stealth design and their are RCS

https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2023/04/08/rafale-radar-scattering-simulation/

as for EM, I don’t see that as any different then any other aircraft in dcs 80s-2000s.

[Chimera]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

The Rafale F1 F2 and F3 used a PESA radar.

Great, but the F-35 and F3R use AESA radars.

 

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

As for RCS it’s not a stealth design and their are RCS

That simulation is rudimentary at best. If it was so easy to deduce RCS values from creating a blender model and running simulations on it, companies wouldn't spend billions of dollars creating these very complex designs. The Rafale might not be a stealth design, read my post I didn't say that, but it incorporates a lot of features to reduce it's RCS.

 

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

as for EM, I don’t see that as any different then any other aircraft in dcs 80s-2000s.

Clearly you have no understanding of this topic if you think that it works exactly the same across various EW suites spanning from the 80-2000's, what we see in DCS is very simplistic not realistic.

Edited January 29 by Chimera

[F-2]

57 minutes ago, Chimera said:

Great, but the F-35 and F3R use AESA radars.

 

That simulation is rudimentary at best. If it was so easy to deduce RCS values from creating a blender model and running simulations on it, companies wouldn't spend billions of dollars creating these very complex designs. The Rafale might not be a stealth design, read my post I didn't say that, but it incorporates a lot of features to reduce it's RCS.

 

Clearly you have no understanding of this topic if you think that it works exactly the same across various EW suites spanning from the 80-2000's, what we see in DCS is very simplistic not realistic.

 

I don’t see why it matters if the F3R uses AESA when we have several options to use PESA

 

doing a computerized RCS study isn’t different from doing a computerized CFD study. It’s a pretty common tool, in fact I’m fairly sure all stealth aircraft produced to date were designed by computer. The Rafale doesn’t incorporate stealth shaping to anywhere it should drastically deviate from any aircraft of contemporary age in game today.

 

Im only saying that as far as DCS is concerned nothing about the Rafale’s EW suite should be that different from the Hornet, Viper, JF-17, and probably Eurofighter. EW is simplified and there exists some fairly detailed articles on how the system works, including a pretty interesting paper by the author.

[SkateZilla]

#Classified

[Furiz]

7 hours ago, Chimera said:

Great, but the F-35 and F3R use AESA radars.

That is not correct, even France on their F3Rs don't have AESA on all of them, they use PESA.

[Chimera]

That is not correct, even France on their F3Rs don't have AESA on all of them, they use PESA.

Wow, how about reading things in context from previous posts. The point I was trying to make, irrespective of whether all of them or some of them use the AESA RBE2 or PESA radar is that they are both still highly classified.

Sent from my 22101316UG using Tapatalk

[Furiz]

3 hours ago, Chimera said:

Wow, how about reading things in context from previous posts. The point I was trying to make, irrespective of whether all of them or some of them use the AESA RBE2 or PESA radar is that they are both still highly classified.

Nvm really,

the point is that their docs is really hard to get, we all know that,

but on the other hand we are getting Eurofighter with PESA probably and Meteor which is unbelievable but they say they will do it, and that is happening so why not Rafale F2 or F3 which would be just perfect for DCS even without R.

[falcon_120]

Nvm really,
the point is that their docs is really hard to get, we all know that,
but on the other hand we are getting Eurofighter with PESA probably and Meteor which is unbelievable but they say they will do it, and that is happening so why not Rafale F2 or F3 which would be just perfect for DCS even without R.

Eurofighter does not use a PESA radar, it uses a traditional mechanical array radar, the ECR90, an advance version of the ferranti blue vixen used by the harrier FA2.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Furiz]

8 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

Eurofighter does not use a PESA radar, it uses a traditional mechanical array radar, the ECR90, an advance version of the ferranti blue vixen used by the harrier FA2.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

Alright my bad,

But still my point stands,

there is lots of info out there on Rafale, is it enough I don't know. Rafale happened as official product in some other sim so I guess it will happen here sooner or later.

[falcon_120]

Alright my bad,
But still my point stands,
there is lots of info out there on Rafale, is it enough I don't know. Rafale happened as official product in some other sim so I guess it will happen here sooner or later.

Where?

If its where i think (MSFS), for me that cant categorize as "its already there somewhere else", its normally just a 3D, a HUD, basic navigation and a poorly matched flight model.

By those standards we already have a nice MOD in DCS.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Furiz]

On 1/31/2024 at 7:50 PM, falcon_120 said:

If its where i think (MSFS), for me that cant categorize as "its already there somewhere else", its normally just a 3D, a HUD, basic navigation and a poorly matched flight model.

Yeah, we can't discuss other products here but just check out the videos, much simpler than ED would do it but not just basic stuff.

Mere fact that Dassault didn't put lawyers on their back is definitely a step in the right direction.