Is This Realistic?

[Rex]

I never fly the Kurfurst without MW-50, and today, it was reinforced why.   (I was on a server with no mw50 planes)

I flew very conservatively, maxing out at 1.25 ATA, and kept the radiators open the entire time, keeping the temps in the middle of the gauge.

Finally got in a scrum, pushed WOT, 15 seconds later, engine dead.

And that was that.

Now, I may be wrong, but I think the K had more emergency-power endurance than 15 seconds, but everytime I try to fly the thing, it's either dead during takeoff, just after takeoff, or dead the moment I join a fight.

The 109 is my primary plane, and I have 1,000+ hours in it, but always, ALWAYS with MW-50 (which I can fly all day long).  The non-MWs might as well be another plane, and a pretty damn awful one at that.  Seriously, if this is anything close to realistic, the Luftwaffe pilots might as well have just put guns to their head on takeoff.  The plane is useless in any fight lasting more than 10 seconds.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Rex

[Rex]

I don't fully understands what the NOTE text means.

Does this mean "while using MW-50" or simply "If the MW-50 system is installed"?  It would seem to be the latter, although I don't know that it makes sense, as all K4s were capable of using MW50 (I think), meaning the Take-Off and WEP were never relevant, so why are they even there?  It's confusing.

 

D

 

God help you online if you can never go past 1.35.  You're going to make the Allies, who typically greatly outnumber you, very happy.

Edited January 21, 2024 by Rex

[saburo_cz]

The engine ratings in DCS K-4 manual is not correct. It is not for the DB605D engine.

 

The DB605D has power settings

special emergency 2800RPM / 1,8ATA with MW (10 minutes limit)

take-off / combat power 2600RPM / 1,45ATA (30 minutes limit? )

max. continuous 2400RPM / 1,35ATA (unlimited)

 

If you are on server where the K-4 is without MW, means that MW tank is set empty (or fuel is there instead of water-methanol) in mission editor and you can not use it even system itself is always instaled. Your maximal power setting is 1,45ATA in that case. If you try go above, the engine will die very quickly. 

 

some inormation is in this topic

 

Edited January 21, 2024 by saburo_cz

[grafspee]

Even if there is no MW50 in tank you can still use 1.8 ATA but you can do this only at very high alt. And don't bother using manual cooling set it for auto and that's it.

Edited January 21, 2024 by grafspee

[NineLine]

We would need to see a track to see what is going on. 

[Supercharger]

By the way.....

i noticed a drop of 300 RPM during run up when shifting between dual to single magneto. In real life this engine would be unserviceable........

Edited July 12, 2024 by Supercharger
failure

[Ala13_ManOWar]

In a Cessna it's 125rpm drop, since this is a much bigger engine I wouldn't know what the max rpm drop should be, but 300 in a 1700-1800rpm run-up doesn't really seem that much.

 

Old threat, but...

On 1/21/2024 at 1:35 AM, Rex said:

I never fly the Kurfurst without MW-50, and today, it was reinforced why.   (I was on a server with no mw50 planes)

I flew very conservatively, maxing out at 1.25 ATA, and kept the radiators open the entire time, keeping the temps in the middle of the gauge.

Finally got in a scrum, pushed WOT, 15 seconds later, engine dead.

And that was that.

Now, I may be wrong, but I think the K had more emergency-power endurance than 15 seconds, but everytime I try to fly the thing, it's either dead during takeoff, just after takeoff, or dead the moment I join a fight.

The 109 is my primary plane, and I have 1,000+ hours in it, but always, ALWAYS with MW-50 (which I can fly all day long).  The non-MWs might as well be another plane, and a pretty damn awful one at that.  Seriously, if this is anything close to realistic, the Luftwaffe pilots might as well have just put guns to their head on takeoff.  The plane is useless in any fight lasting more than 10 seconds.

 

 

 

Hi mate, sorry for the delay . In a nutshell, yes, you're wrong. Going past 1.4 Ata without MW50 loaded is wrong and breaks the engine. That room you have until 1.8+ isn't there as a WEP, it's there for you to compensate manifold pressure drop with altitude, you won't have that much room when you climb, but that's no WEP whatsoever hence if you go there without MW50 you're just badly overboosting the engine with no antidetonation help (metanol-water mix does just that, plus refrigerating the engine). So, yes, it's absolutely realistic you break the engine when it's mismanaged, of course it is. Without the mix don't ever go beyond 1.4 Ata.

[Art-J]

Looks like the real 605 dropped about 150 when tested at 950 RPM:

"Ours" drops about 100 in these conditions so it's actually better  . No idea about expected drop at higher RPM, though, and my German knowledge is insufficient to search for it in real manuals.

[Supercharger]

To be honest,

i don't have a DB605 manual, but the DB603 manual says not more than 80 RPM @ combat power rating. The DB610 manual says at more than 50 RPM drop, clean up the plugs. In my opinion the 300 RPM drop we actually have is way too much. But in game it doesn't matter, it is just a question of realism.

[Rex]

18 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

In a Cessna it's 125rpm drop, since this is a much bigger engine I wouldn't know what the max rpm drop should be, but 300 in a 1700-1800rpm run-up doesn't really seem that much.

 

Old threat, but...

Hi mate, sorry for the delay . In a nutshell, yes, you're wrong. Going past 1.4 Ata without MW50 loaded is wrong and breaks the engine. That room you have until 1.8+ isn't there as a WEP, it's there for you to compensate manifold pressure drop with altitude, you won't have that much room when you climb, but that's no WEP whatsoever hence if you go there without MW50 you're just badly overboosting the engine with no antidetonation help (metanol-water mix does just that, plus refrigerating the engine). So, yes, it's absolutely realistic you break the engine when it's mismanaged, of course it is. Without the mix don't ever go beyond 1.4 Ata.

Fair enough, thank you

On a related note, what percentage of K-4 pilots flew without MW50?  During the Battle of Normandy, from the little of been able to find since the Luftwaffe wasn't a huge factor, it seems like most planes were able to come up with the 30.4 gallons of MW50 (15.2 gallons being the more scarce Methanol). 

So even though there weren't many 109s in the Normandy skies, those that were present appeared to almost always have MW50 ... again, from what I've been able to discern.

Don't tell anyone, but the truth is, I wasn't actually there.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Depends.

At the start of the invasion, Luftwaffe forces were basically negligible in north west France, with 2/3rds of their aircraft on home defence.  
In the days after the invasion, the Luftwaffe did push circa 1000 aircraft into north west France.

However, the allies knew their were coming and where to, the Luftwaffe pilots were often poorly trained by that time and were short on fuel.

So when the 1000 aircraft started arriving, they were still massively outnumbered, landed in bases not really well prepared or short on fuel and then were straffed on the ground. 
To add to the above, the loss rate by just accidents was circa 50%.

IMO, the question about MW50 is almost irrelevant, if you’re thinking about vaguely accurate depiction of the time.

Vaguely accurate probably means a decent chance of being straffed on take off and landing, and in your flight, walking into 25 Spitfires.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

3 hours ago, Rex said:

Fair enough, thank you

On a related note, what percentage of K-4 pilots flew without MW50?  During the Battle of Normandy, from the little of been able to find since the Luftwaffe wasn't a huge factor, it seems like most planes were able to come up with the 30.4 gallons of MW50 (15.2 gallons being the more scarce Methanol). 

So even though there weren't many 109s in the Normandy skies, those that were present appeared to almost always have MW50 ... again, from what I've been able to discern.

Don't tell anyone, but the truth is, I wasn't actually there.

Bearing in mind this man, I can't recall his name now, but a LW veteran who was consulted by ED about the Dora and 109 when they were developing those modules back in 2013-5, clearly said he never, ever, flew the 109 past beyond 1.2 Ata to preserve the engines, whatever the version he had at that time, since there were not many spare ones... Well, the MW50 thing or not is probably more related to a competitive gaming environment nowadays than a reality back then. Preserving the engines, or not, pilots just flew for their lives and I don't think having MW50 at low altitude would have made any difference between being shot down now or 2 seconds later.

Anyhow, yes, I can tell you. The percentage of K-4 with MW50 in Normandy during the battle was exactly 0%. The K-4 first entered service in September-October 44 .

Edited July 14, 2024 by Ala13_ManOWar