Cool-Hand Posted January 23 Posted January 23 (edited) The Bug: After engaging WEP I get a sudden engine surge of RPM followed by an uncontrolled rise in oil temperature corresponding with the failure "Engine Degraded." Sometimes under the documented 5 minute WEP usage limit, sometimes 38 minutes later with cruise power set for no apparent reason. Both cases with all temps in acceptable ranges. This occurs in air starts and cold starts after properly warming up. Online and Offline it occurs. Test Method: The most repeatable test I can come up with is by use of active pause to quickly test different variables. I spawn let the needles stabilize add power. This happens without active pause as well but this way seems more stable for a video. I used the Caucus map freeflight mission since it starts at the top of the hour and makes timing easier with the ingame clock. I am attaching a video of roughly 3 mins in length of a failure approximately occurring 3:04. The same track used to record the video will be attached as well. The video and track below show temperatures in the the green arcs and WEP usage and failure around the 3:04 mark in the video. I have played the track twice on my system and plays out the same way everytime.There was very little input so I hope the active pause does not corrupt the track. I have longer ones to document failures randomly later on but I felt the shorter the better most likely. I have tested this down to two causes repeatedly: in the green arc,slightly higher than minimum, but well below the redline oil temperatures and over the redline turbo temps. This results in either engine degraded or engine overheat failure, seemingly the same thing and interchangeable. The really puzzling part is that it is very random. I can abuse the engine for 15 mins WEP sometimes and fly until the fuel runs out or the engine will die sometime from 0 to 38 minutes after setting a cruise or low power setting for no apparent reason. At times like this I won't even get 5 mins of WEP out of the engine before I get an "Engine Degraded" Failure. Another finding, setting oil shutter to full open seems to save the engine. 1 out of 4 times I left the shutter open did I have an engine degraded after 33 minutes of cruise power and appropriate temperatures for the engine, usually after closing the shutters to keep the temperature from going too low is when the failure occurs. I'm not sure that over cooling damage is modelled for the P-47. I have many hours in DCS on it and can not recall a time that it has happened. The only downside to leaving the shutters open in the drag penalty. @NineLine @Yo-Yo Engine Degraded test 3 min death.trk Edited January 31 by Cool-Hand Grammar 3 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Brigg Posted January 23 Posted January 23 (edited) just out of curiosity you are locking the water button or using a mapped button that will stay in a depressed state. edit i can see you are thats interesting as myself or squad mates dont get that issue. also i very rarely have to have the oil cooler fully open also could you please share how you did that cockpit photo Edited January 23 by Brigg
Cool-Hand Posted January 27 Author Posted January 27 Yeah in the D-30 and 40 just a button to engage the WEP. Well to keep the temp in the green I usually don't have to open the coolers fully either but that's when I get the issue with the Engine Degraded after I use WEP. Like I say if I leave them full open for whatever reason I have less of a chance of the engine failing me 20+ mins later cruising around. if I don't...well the video I posted shows what happens. I edited one of the files that has the dash textures and put in saved games and load a custom cockpit through the game options. There are easier ways but this way it doesn't break integrity check online. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted January 27 Author Posted January 27 Engine Degraded 3 min WEP degraded 50 mins later.trk Here is a more extreme track. This is the longest I tested and had the "engine degraded." I used 3 mins at wep and then reduced to max economical cruise 32/2250 and the engine was stable for ~47 mins and died from "engine degraded." This is usually how it happens to me. After a fight and brief WEP usage I usually lose the engine headed back to base or patrolling later on. If I'm online, I lose the engine, and inevitably on the Project Overlord server I get bounced with no engine. Maybe this is an extra data point that could be useful in tracking down what is going on. Temperatures remained in the green the arcs the entire flight. One interesting note is the oil temperature dipped and rose slightly mid way through the test but the shutters were not moved except the start of the mission. Since a constant speed/altitude is observed with active pause, I don't know why the engine would vary temperatures at all if nothing was changed after cruise power was set. Just for reference it's still the same caucus instant action free flight mission...I do not have any mods installed except some custom cockpits through the saved games folder and I have random failures disabled in the options. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Brigg Posted January 30 Posted January 30 sorry i dont know what to say as i cant replicate it, i even ran the water dry in one on the third run. maybe its to do with the active pause as i did my tests moving
Cool-Hand Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 Engine Degraded no active pause.trk Roughly around 3 and a half mins no active pause and I get engine degraded. I also can get the engine to run the full the 5 minutes without getting the engine degraded failure, but I have to run full open on the oil shutters using WEP. This puts the needle usually at the bottom or slightly below the green arc on the gauge. The problem I am having is, I am getting this failure when the temperatures are in the green arcs. I could see if I was exceeding a limitation or temp having a failure but not when the engine should be in it's nominal operating range. It's straight and level flying no hard maneuvers or climbs so that's what is puzzling to me. Maybe one of the devs that have access to the x-ray damage viewer could at least take a look and see what exactly is failing to cause "Engine Degraded" since that's all I can see on the debriefs. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted February 1 Author Posted February 1 I thought about it and decided to try a different approach to testing... This time I took the first track I added that failed roughly 3.5 minutes in and tried to keep the engine from dying by running the oil and turbo shutters full open with WEP usage. The result was the same failure at roughly the same time and not getting the advertised 5 mins of WEP usage from the engine before it becomes 'degraded.' This appears to indicate that it is not related to temperature in the engine or turbo but something else. I'll attach a video as well. I would like to hear from anyone who downloads the track/tracks to see if they experience the same issue on replay or taking control of it...particularly any devs that can see what is going on with the damage model. Failure occurs 3:27 mark for reference. Engine Degraded oil and intercooler full shutters full open 2.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted February 18 Author Posted February 18 @NineLine Hate to bump my own thread....Any chance you could take a look and see what might be happening that causes the 'Engine Degraded' Failure on these tracks? Should only take ~4mins 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted February 21 Author Posted February 21 Engine Degraded 5 mins wep followed by max continuous 17 minutes degraded.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted February 21 Author Posted February 21 Engine Degraded 5 mins wep followed by max continuous then max contiuous 12 minutes degraded.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ED Team f-18hornet Posted February 23 ED Team Posted February 23 Reported for analysis. AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, GeForce RTX 2080Ti, 32 GB DRAM, HOTAS TM Warthog, FSSB R3 Lighting, MFG Crosswind, Win 10 Pro
Cool-Hand Posted April 10 Author Posted April 10 Version 2.9.4.53549.... Still having the same Engine Degraded Failure randomly with WEP usage on the P-47D. One Track the engine degraded under 5 mins of Water Injection. The other track, the engine lasted the full 5 mins, then at 1 hour and 3 mins into the flight at max continuous the Engine Degraded with no excess temps or stresses. This mirrors the randomness of the pre patch behavior. Maybe these tracks will help. New Patch under 5 mins WEP Degraded.trk New Patch 1 hour 3 mins WEP Degraded.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted April 22 Author Posted April 22 (edited) New hot fix patch Version 2.9.4.53707 Still having WEP usage causing Engine Degraded at random intervals. A new wrinkle, I have longer ones but this lasts 1 min and 1 second in WEP. I haven't experienced a failure that fast before. I'm not sure even abusing the engine to the extremes could cause a failure that fast... Hot Fix One 1 1sec min degraded engine.trk Edited April 22 by Cool-Hand added screenshot of debrief [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Hobel Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Am 1.2.2024 um 19:52 schrieb Cool-Hand: I thought about it and decided to try a different approach to testing... This time I took the first track I added that failed roughly 3.5 minutes in and tried to keep the engine from dying by running the oil and turbo shutters full open with WEP usage. The result was the same failure at roughly the same time and not getting the advertised 5 mins of WEP usage from the engine before it becomes 'degraded.' This appears to indicate that it is not related to temperature in the engine or turbo but something else. I'll attach a video as well. I would like to hear from anyone who downloads the track/tracks to see if they experience the same issue on replay or taking control of it...particularly any devs that can see what is going on with the damage model. Failure occurs 3:27 mark for reference. Engine Degraded oil and intercooler full shutters full open 2.trk 1022.07 kB · 9 Downloads my first wild guess is that the 2700RPM is to blame, try holding 2600RPM and see what happens then
Doughguy Posted May 30 Posted May 30 2700 rpm seems to be a magical number that likes to break warbird engines.. dora eg. now p47.. although ive heard voices that basically the p51 aswell sufferes from the same issue, hence my suspicion is that the coolin system is bugged overall https://sr-f.de/
Cool-Hand Posted May 30 Author Posted May 30 19 hours ago, Hobel said: my first wild guess is that the 2700RPM is to blame, try holding 2600RPM and see what happens then I've tried different combos of rpm and mixture settings but mostly ends up the same or reduced performance to a degree it isn't full power anymore... but I don't expect those to work. The engine charts are not ambiguous about their settings the engine should operate at for full power,cruise, etc. Running reduced rpms to cheat a timer or some hidden parameter seems very il2'ish. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted June 5 Author Posted June 5 Todays update. Still getting random failures with WEP usage, still sometimes the engine does not last 5 mins at WEP before 'Engine Degrading' Update Engine Degraded 4 mins 30s .trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 2.9.6 update still the same issue. Here are two more tracks... Same thing as before ran for 5 mins then engine died at max continuous, if anyone actually looks at these from ED. One try didn't last the full 5 mins but forgot to save the track. There are plenty above to choose from like that. todays up date still degraded engine.trk todays up date still degraded engine2.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
peachmonkey Posted July 11 Posted July 11 yup, it is annoying, today's patch contains only the rear wheel fix for p47. Meanwhile, I can suggest using WEP at ~2,600 RPM, I never have problems with it that way.
Cool-Hand Posted July 15 Author Posted July 15 On 7/11/2024 at 1:04 PM, peachmonkey said: yup, it is annoying, today's patch contains only the rear wheel fix for p47. Meanwhile, I can suggest using WEP at ~2,600 RPM, I never have problems with it that way. Yeah it still degrades the engine for me after 5 minutes of ADI usage. That's the main problem I have, it's the engine degrading at cruise power or max continuous afterwards.the engine should and did last much longer but I understand it's a game at the end of the day so some limit has to be coded. This reminds me a lot of how the Mustang used to be years ago, the engine would seize all the sudden at a seemingly random point after using WEP rating. The R-2800 was renowned for its durability, ED needs to fix it so that one can at least operate the engine as laid out via the engine charts in the pilots manual. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cool-Hand Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 1 min 54 sec.trk DCS Version 2.9.6.58056 Getting under 2 minutes of ADI usage before 'Engine Degraded' Very repeatable, ran the track 3 times to be sure. No active pause no time compression. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
kablamoman Posted July 24 Posted July 24 It sure would be nice if they could finally take a look at some of these warbird issues. 3
Cool-Hand Posted August 2 Author Posted August 2 (edited) Engine degraded after shutdown Aug2nd.trk I fly ~5 mins WEP, subsequently land right after this run and taxi off the runway. The engine degrades two minutes sixteen seconds AFTER shutting down the engine. This is almost a carbon copy of how the Mustang was a few years back. I have included the Track, Debrief, and video of the Track. Not sure what all else I can provide for this as evidence there is a problem with the modelling. Edited August 2 by Cool-Hand words 2 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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