Data cartridge vs Mission Editor Question

[apaluq]

Listening to a podcast with Wags talking about the DTC

 

I’m a bit confused. If you create or open a mission then click Fly, your steer points and ordnance are all loaded up and things are ready to go. 
 

What benefit or difference does a DTC add versus that?

[Rudel_chw]

1 minute ago, apaluq said:

What benefit or difference does a DTC add versus that?

Most multiplayer dcs users fly on servers that have missions created by someone else … where your aircraft probably has not an appropriate flightplan, radio presets, nor weapons programming, for those users a DTC is a great feature to have.

[apaluq]

8 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

Most multiplayer dcs users fly on servers that have missions created by someone else … where your aircraft probably has not an appropriate flightplan, radio presets, nor weapons programming, for those users a DTC is a great feature to have.

So if they join a server the active mission parameters don’t load into the aircraft as in single player?

[Rudel_chw]

22 minutes ago, apaluq said:

So if they join a server the active mission parameters don’t load into the aircraft as in single player?

they do, but those parameters are the ones set by the mission designer, and most players find that they are not what they would like.

[rob10]

And IIRC on some aircraft it will allow you to tweak some default MFD display settings, CMS programs etc.

[twistking]

6 hours ago, apaluq said:

Listening to a podcast with Wags talking about the DTC

I’m a bit confused. If you create or open a mission then click Fly, your steer points and ordnance are all loaded up and things are ready to go.

What benefit or difference does a DTC add versus that?

Perhaps, the mission designer WANTS the player to do the actual planning. Currently the mission designer creates the scenario AND does the mission planning. Ideally mission designers could choose if they want the player(s) to make their own planning.
Additionally there are several rather important things, that cannot be preset in ME. For example CMS programs...

It will also be important for the "upcoming" dynamic campaign, where the scenario is procedurally evolving and players are asked to come up with own missions and mission planning...

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

It will also be important for the "upcoming" dynamic campaign, where the scenario is procedurally evolving and players are asked to come up with own missions and mission planning...

I would assume a Dynamic Campaign generates missions for you. But I guess that remains to be seen. 

[Gunfreak]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:20 PM, apaluq said:

Listening to a podcast with Wags talking about the DTC

 

I’m a bit confused. If you create or open a mission then click Fly, your steer points and ordnance are all loaded up and things are ready to go. 
 

What benefit or difference does a DTC add versus that?

Stuff like countermeasure programs isn't  possible to edit in mission editor for the F16. But will come with the DTC. So you won't have to spend 5 minutes or more dobbing your way through the countermeasure programs in the cockpit.

[falcon_120]

To further clarify the point, most (>95%) of servers will give you an aircraft slot of the faction/team you decide. When you go into that jet and you start it you'll find you have no flight plan, no targets loaded, no CMS Countermeasure programmed, even no weapons, as normally you select what you fancy that day, like CAP, CAS or a pinpoint strike mission. In all those case i imagine the DATA cardrige allowing you to create a flight plan "on the go" in an easy way, while also storing your preferred MFD/Countermeasure presets. 

Even in SP games, or in MP MilSim missions with your squadrons, were the flight plan is fully loaded into your jet, you still need to program CMS programs, weapons programs and fuzes, MFD, etc... In theory a Data cartrige is able to do that for you, even things like preloading your JDAMs coordinates in your jet.

[twistking]

1 hour ago, falcon_120 said:

[...] even things like preloading your JDAMs coordinates in your jet.

Yes, smart weapons is a big one as well...

[SharpeXB]

A DTC only saves you so much work in a game. IRL those things like target coordinates, weapon codes or a flight plan are added for you. In the game you’ll still need to do them yourself just on a different screen or whatever. Honestly using the aircraft itself isn’t that hard. If the DTC is just another mission editor it’s like one more thing to learn. 

[Tippis]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, SharpeXB said:

A DTC only saves you so much work in a game. IRL those things like target coordinates, weapon codes or a flight plan are added for you. In the game you’ll still need to do them yourself just on a different screen or whatever.

More specifically, you do it on a different screen where you don't have to hunt-and-peck type into the most backwards and obtuse UI ever imagined. Instead, you pick spots on the map and get all data related to that spot immediately in the appropriate format because the computer does that for you. It's what computers are for. You check boxes and pick in drop-down menus and copy-paste rather than page through umpteen different subsub-side-sub menus on a five-line MFD and use bitcodes to assign functions.

You also access settings that can't be set in the cockpit.

If done correctly, you can even set up things that aren't available anywhere, such as multiple flight plans and draw lines and unknown threat circles.

You do all of that in a matter of minutes — seconds if there is export/import features, and there should be or it's incorrectly made — rather than burn fuel on the tarmac for 30 minutes before you can get into the action (and if you rearm/refuel to get that back, you lose your settings because lol).

Using the aircraft isn't hard. It's just stupid and unrealistic. And pointlessly stupid and unrealistic at that — the very reason the DTCs exist is exactly because of what a horrid idea it is to do it manually in the cockpit. The amount of work it saves is nothing short of profound.

Edited April 6, 2024 by Tippis

[Bimbac]

The DTC also ensures that everybody has the same settings, frequencies, coordinates, laser codes, etc. - that's the main benefit. In real life, when the pilots go through the mission briefing, the planning staff prepares all the data for them with the cooperation of the flight leaders, who then distribute the mission data to their subordinates. I really wish we get the same functionality in the DCS, preferably in the form of the XML file, which could be distributed freely to the players participating in the mission.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Bimbac said:

The DTC also ensures that everybody has the same settings, frequencies, coordinates, laser codes, etc. - that's the main benefit. In real life, when the pilots go through the mission briefing, the planning staff prepares all the data for them with the cooperation of the flight leaders, who then distribute the mission data to their subordinates. I really wish we get the same functionality in the DCS, preferably in the form of the XML file, which could be distributed freely to the players participating in the mission.

Indeed the DTC would have to generate a file that can be shared otherwise it doesn’t seem that useful. I guess we really don’t know how it will work yet. And the usefulness seems mostly a MP thing. In SP these things are given to you like they’d be IRL. 

[Dragon1-1]

They are, but there are still blind spots, like JDAM target points in the Hornet. IRL, they would've been loaded via DTC, not punched in by the number while sitting in the cockpit. Also, you have some customization options that currently aren't present anywhere but in config files (which get eaten every update).

[Tippis]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Indeed the DTC would have to generate a file that can be shared otherwise it doesn’t seem that useful.

It would be useful regardless. Being able to store and share settings just makes it insanely so.

Whether SP or MP makes no difference — it's a function of whether or not you have everything preset in the mission editor, and whether all those settings are exactly to your liking. That isn't always the case, no matter whether we're talking about MP or SP. In fact, it is almost never the case. On top of that, a proper DTC implementation would gather up all the bajillion settings that are currently inconsistently scattered all over the Special options tab, the kneeboard, the F10 menu, and things that should be pre-programmable but that are only available as in-flight options — things that can't even be set in the ME.

That's the critical component you're missing here: you're assuming that the mission editor covers everything and that everything can be given to you via that method. That isn't the case. So no, you're not given all these things in SP. You either have to set them up before you know what the mission is, or you have to sit on the tarmact and fiddle with the onboard computers or some hacked-in kneeboard UI. And like you say, these things wouldn't be done in the cockpit — they'd be given to you. Hence why a unified DTC interface is needed.