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100 Contacts BUG - or How not to be seen by Monty Python

303_Kermit

By 303_Kermit
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303_Kermit

303_Kermit

Posted
Posted (edited)

Famous Monty Python sketch starts like these: "On these picture there are 47 people, non of them can be seen..."

Dear ED
We created these video to show some serious issue we found in dcs. It won't be surprise if I announce here that there is a problem with displaying a contact in MP environment. Contacts seem to disappear in most unexpected way. Mostly it happens on very dense populated servers, with rich A2G and A2A environment. Mainly I'm thinking about Enigma server, but the problem seem to be independent from Enigma specific environment, but rather is a pure DCS issue. And sorry for background noises, and my crappy english. I'm not YT big tit blonde...

PS.: Below you can find a mission on which =Crow=Zakson tested the bug. See if you may repeat the results.
PS2.: Watch the movie in highest possible quality, to see what I'm talking about.

 

test-dot-101.miz


Edited by 303_Kermit
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MoleUK

MoleUK

Posted
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This has been a problem for a good while, I hadn't clocked that it was related to the number of overall units. Might explain why it's so much worse sometimes.

I'm assuming this is either an optimisation step by ED, or they put a hard cap of the number of dots for some reason and didn't realise it would hit that cap so easily.

Well done for noticing the trigger here.


Edited by MoleUK
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ags

ags

Posted
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I'm used to looking everywhere at an angle, and bound zoom as a button on a throttle, as things pop into view and disappear in VR without logic I understand.

There used to be a dot fix, but now it breaks IC.

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VR, i9, Winwing, TM and VKB.

 

2, 4, ban, ban, 2

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mono

mono

Posted
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Thanks for testing this, would certainly explain a lot why dots will slip in and out of existence depending on where you point your view cone.

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II.JG1_Vonrd

II.JG1_Vonrd

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Really interesting that there is a "magic number" that causes this affect. @303_Kermit nice detective work and well presented.

The question in my mind is how often do mission builders place more than 100 entities in one group? I would assume not often. What if there are two groups of 55 entities each in close proximity? If that close proximity causes the same affect it would make sense. Many missions have areas that have large totals of entities in one area, i.e. a well defended airfield. I wonder if there's an area diameter 100 unit limit.

I might give that a try for a test and encourage others to do so.

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MoleUK

MoleUK

Posted
Posted (edited)

Can't test it myself atm, but it may be worth finding out at what distance the unit number becomes a problem. I'm assuming it'll be under 40km, not the full 150km rendering distance, but it might be worth checking just incase. As you could at least mitigate that by reducing the render distance back down to 80km or less.


Edited by MoleUK
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303_Kermit

303_Kermit

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22 hours ago, MoleUK said:

Can't test it myself atm, but it may be worth finding out at what distance the unit number becomes a problem. I'm assuming it'll be under 40km, not the full 150km rendering distance, but it might be worth checking just incase. As you could at least mitigate that by reducing the render distance back down to 80km or less.

 

about ~30nm.

It makes me sad that no one from Eagle Dynamics is interested 😪 . Not even Enigma - and it's his server most affected by the bug 😕


Edited by 303_Kermit
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MoleUK

MoleUK

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2024 at 6:36 PM, 303_Kermit said:

about ~30nm.

It makes me sad that no one from Eagle Dynamics is interested 😪 . Not even Enigma - and it's his server most affected by the bug 😕

 

Think Enigma is on vacation atm. ED definitely need to take a peek tho.

If it's around 30nm it's probably 50000metres, that tends to be what ED works in in the lua files. Good to know tho, I may dig around in the lua files later to see what if anything is set to 50k. Might not be something we can fix on our end but worth a shot.


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Zakson85

Zakson85

Posted
Posted 
I checked it as quickly as I could.
The problem also occurs on this mission.

I just had to fly closer to the ground units.

1 - Flight = 99 units on the ground and 4 in the air
you can see the moment the dots disappear when there are over 100 contacts in the field of view.
you can also see the moment when air targets appear when I turn my head, a place without ground units.

2 - Flight = that's 96 ground units + 4 in the air.
Everything is ok here.

 

 

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AutumnFox

AutumnFox

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So ah' got this crazy idea... How about th' dots prioritize displaying airplanes an' ships with expected attrition tae ground stuff... Or simply get rid of ground dots? A'm fairly certain it'll upset people dedicated tae ground pounding but ground targets are easily spotted with guid recon or planning anyways an' spotting aircraft is a priority for literally everyone, including ground pounders.
With regards 🍺

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Why485

Why485

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/20/2024 at 6:02 PM, Flappie said:

@303_Kermit I don't get it: I see the issue when reviewing your mission. Now, when I try to make my own over Caucasus, I cannot  reproduce the issue. Am I missing something?

Caucasus_99ground_4aircraft.miz 15.14 kB · 4 downloads

It might require matching the OP's graphics settings in order to make the bug visible. This feels like something related to the LOD system.


Edited by Why485
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Enigma89

Enigma89

Posted
Posted
On 4/16/2024 at 1:36 PM, 303_Kermit said:

about ~30nm.

It makes me sad that no one from Eagle Dynamics is interested 😪 . Not even Enigma - and it's his server most affected by the bug 😕

 

You made this post while I was out of town on vacation.

Additionally, I cannot be expected to respond to every single bug post that impacts our server. I only have 24 hours in the day. 

 

 

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Zakson85

Zakson85

Posted
Posted

Don't worry, there's nothing to be nervous about. This is not your server's fault. This is a problem with DCS in general. We fly a lot on your server and used it as an example.

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Zakson85

Zakson85

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Why485 said:

It might require matching the OP's graphics settings in order to make the bug visible. This feels like something related to the LOD system.

graphics settings do not affect this. It doesn't matter if it's VR or a flat screen. Ultra low or ultra high graphic setings. I tested dozens of scenarios. The problem is still the same. Interestingly, the moment of disappearance of the "healthy" dot depends on the resolution. The higher it is, the sooner it switches to the 3D model

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71st_Mastiff

71st_Mastiff

Posted
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On 4/21/2024 at 5:11 AM, Zakson85 said: 
I checked it as quickly as I could.
The problem also occurs on this mission.

I just had to fly closer to the ground units.

1 - Flight = 99 units on the ground and 4 in the air
you can see the moment the dots disappear when there are over 100 contacts in the field of view.
you can also see the moment when air targets appear when I turn my head, a place without ground units.

2 - Flight = that's 96 ground units + 4 in the air.
Everything is ok here.

 

 

are the trees included, there is a special tree that seems to be new and has a dot shadow also?

I see it mostly in syria map.

 

 

" any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, "  W Forbes

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts,"  Winston Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," 

MSI z690MPG DDR4 || i914900k|| ddr4-64gb PC3200 || MSI RTX 4070Ti|Game1300w|Win10x64| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2|| MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Samsung||

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Zakson85

Zakson85

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, 71st_Mastiff said:

are the trees included, there is a special tree that seems to be new and has a dot shadow also?

I see it mostly in syria map.

I don't think so, I did my first tests in Syria and I had no idea about these trees. Can you show some example?

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71st_Mastiff

71st_Mastiff

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zakson85 said:

I don't think so, I did my first tests in Syria and I had no idea about these trees. Can you show some example?

unfortunately no, its in VR. only shows up in the VR display; not sure about the flat screens, Ill check though.

trk. mission canned from AH-64 Apache, missions folder Syria, scud hunt.

scudmiztreedot.zip

best I could do under the circumstances. display is ASUS at 2560x1440, VR is PiMax Crystal, at .79% custom. render view.

pimaxset1.png

 

pimaxset12.png

 

 

displayset1.png

Syria Map, Airfield from Taftanaz. 

treedots12.png

 

treedots1.png

 


Edited by 71st_Mastiff

" any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, "  W Forbes

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts,"  Winston Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," 

MSI z690MPG DDR4 || i914900k|| ddr4-64gb PC3200 || MSI RTX 4070Ti|Game1300w|Win10x64| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2|| MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Samsung||

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