Mi-24 is way too strong

[[31st] Spider]

I've had multiple situations where a Mi-24 (AI, not player) survives multiple missile impacts. A few days ago, it survived two AIM-9x hits from above on the main rotor and a full gun blast from the side. That thing is a flying bunker. Not realistic. The same for the Mi-8 btw. Please make the Mi-24 less strong.

Edited April 19, 2024 by [31st] Spider

[martin.kloubek]

1 hour ago, [31st] Spider said:

I've had multiple situations where a Mi-24 survives multiple missile impacts. A few days ago, it survived two AIM-9x hits from above on the main rotor and a full gun blast from the side. That thing is a flying bunker. Not realistic. The same for the Mi-8 btw. Please make the Mi-24 less strong.

 

i guess you are in bad forum, for Ah64 Apache is somewhere else. Btw, Mi-24 have 14 tons, its called "the flying tank for reason"

[LuseKofte]

I flew Coop yesterday a soldier ak47 got credited for killing me. Suddenly it just vibrated me to the dirt. I guess there was a rpg soldier there too. But the ak 47 got the credit

[martin.kloubek]

16 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I flew Coop yesterday a soldier ak47 got credited for killing me. Suddenly it just vibrated me to the dirt. I guess there was a rpg soldier there too. But the ak 47 got the credit

 you are not the spider, they are strong AF

[nighteyes2017]

Flying tank or not. Whenever i encounter a mi24 in my F16, a single sidewinder hitting it full on, NEVER, brings down this helicopter. So i now know i always have to fire at least 2 missiles. More often than not, even a second full on hit still isn't enough, and the thing just keeps on flying. These are always AI btw. Would that make a difference? It really shouldn't.

But anyway, yeah i agree, the thing is disproportionally strong. A full on missile hit should not be survivable by any rotor, let alone two.

 

[JAPman]

Hinds are as strong as Apaches when made into enemies?

If you inadvertently make an Apache appear in the mission generator, the Hellfire will pour down like a demon and destroy the Red Army.

[AeriaGloria]

18 hours ago, [31st] Spider said:

I've had multiple situations where a Mi-24 survives multiple missile impacts. A few days ago, it survived two AIM-9x hits from above on the main rotor and a full gun blast from the side. That thing is a flying bunker. Not realistic. The same for the Mi-8 btw. Please make the Mi-24 less strong.

 

 

2 hours ago, nighteyes2017 said:

Flying tank or not. Whenever i encounter a mi24 in my F16, a single sidewinder hitting it full on, NEVER, brings down this helicopter. So i now know i always have to fire at least 2 missiles. More often than not, even a second full on hit still isn't enough, and the thing just keeps on flying. These are always AI btw. Would that make a difference? It really shouldn't.

But anyway, yeah i agree, the thing is disproportionally strong. A full on missile hit should not be survivable by any rotor, let alone two.

 

Are you’ve flying against AI or player aircraft? Big difference 

[randomTOTEN]

This sounds like AI, and it's been around for probably 15 years. Those AI Hinds are extremely rugged. I'd venture to guess they have to be considering how much they like flying into enemy AI weapons.

Edited April 19, 2024 by randomTOTEN

[admiki]

My experience with AI is mostly with the Mi-8.

If I get hit and lose part of the rotor, I have about 30 seconds to get on the ground.

AI Mi-8 can shake like a wet dog for 20 minutes and fly.

So, player Mi-24 is not too strong.

[LuseKofte]

20 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

 

Are you’ve flying against AI or player aircraft? Big difference 

This is a damn fact. I am fond flying the hind. But I am also fond of shooting it down. So I am not biased 

Edited April 20, 2024 by LuseKofte

[nighteyes2017]

Yes, flying against AI's. So judging from what i'm reading here, Player and AI mi24's have different damage models? Kinda weird, but alright then. So would it be possible then to modify the AI damage? Because it seems very much overpowered.

[randomTOTEN]

just shoot at it more

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, nighteyes2017 said:

Yes, flying against AI's. So judging from what i'm reading here, Player and AI mi24's have different damage models? Kinda weird, but alright then. So would it be possible then to modify the AI damage? Because it seems very much overpowered.

ED has to do it. In addition, there are two Mi-24 AI models. A 24V and a newer 24P. They may act differently 

[303_Kermit]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:27 PM, martin.kloubek said:

i guess you are in bad forum, for Ah64 Apache is somewhere else. Btw, Mi-24 have 14 tons, its called "the flying tank for reason"

That is why one Grom, Igla, Stinger IRL today is usually enough to take it down. In afghanistan, most of them fell down from one stinger only. Sorry. But there are no indestructible choppers, and unsinkable ships. They can sustain considerable amount of small arms fire, but nothing else.

AI - Mi-24 (and only AI) is too strong. But generally all AI are a bit too strong:

 

Edited April 20, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[martin.kloubek]

In the photo, the flight commander, Captain Konstantin Anatolyevich Shipachev, stands next to his Mi-24 helicopter, which was shot by a Stinger MANPADS. Afghanistan, 1987.

[Hog_driver]

So this one got lucky.

Have you seen this video?

 

Or this one?

 

 

[Flappie]

Many helicopters in DCS have some serious DM issues. One example: in DCS, both the Mi-24P and Mi-8 have a very solid tail (the Mi-8 beats the Mi-24P by far, but still). These nearly indestructible tails act as a shield when you attack these helicopters from behind. I reported this issue a few weeks ago.

There are other issues, and I'm working to identify them clearly and report them.

Oh, and don't forget people, it's better to report an issue with DCS tracks attached.

[MoleUK]

On 6/2/2024 at 3:06 PM, Flappie said:

Many helicopters in DCS have some serious DM issues. One example: in DCS, both the Mi-24P and Mi-8 have a very solid tail (the Mi-8 beats the Mi-24P by far, but still). These nearly indestructible tails act as a shield when you attack these helicopters from behind. I reported this issue a few weeks ago.

There are other issues, and I'm working to identify them clearly and report them.

Oh, and don't forget people, it's better to report an issue with DCS tracks attached.

The tails are particularly egregious, I have always wondered how much of it might be due to lag or hit reg problems rather than a DM problem. But afaik hit reg is client side so it shouldn't matter?

The Hind can absorb some big hits, but it can also go down very quick even to small arms if it hits the right spot. Ontop of the tail, I'm not sure if the nose/chin/canopy should be absorbing hydra impacts quite as well as it can. But consistently testing the actual DM as opposed to the AI DM is hard to do.

Tail impacts with little effect vs a player controlled Hind occur in both these clips as an example:

 

 

I have had one or two instances of hitting the tails of jets (with rockets) and not seeing much effect either, but it's happened too rarely to say if there's a problem there too.

Edited June 10, 2024 by MoleUK

[Flappie]

41 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

I have always wondered how much of it might be due to lag or hit reg problems rather than a DM problem. But afaik hit reg is client side so it shouldn't matter?

It's not a MP-only issue. All DM issues are reproducible in SP. Including the "AI thinks I'm dead but I'm not, lol" bugs.

[MoleUK]

10 minutes ago, Flappie said:

It's not a MP-only issue. All DM issues are reproducible in SP. Including the "AI thinks I'm dead but I'm not, lol" bugs.

I thought the SP helos had their own extra level of problems re: the DM? By all accounts they are far, far tankier than in MP. I and many others assumed this was a design choice by ED, in order to prevent AI helos going down too often/fast in SP campaigns to ground AI. Always thought the issue was seperate from any potential MP DM issues.

If that isn't the case I will start sending assembling some SP helo DM tracks.

[Flappie]

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

I and many others assumed this was a design choice by ED, in order to prevent AI helos going down too often/fast in SP campaigns to ground AI.

No, I don't think so. Old helicopter modules simply show their age: old visual model, old damage model. I suspect the Mi-24P tail received the same treatment than that of the Mi-8.

Mi-8 and Mi-24 tails are reported already.

I'm about to report crew not being killed by repeated missiles coming from the 12 o'clock (SH-60 crew is immortal, then come AH-1, AH-64A, UH1H, UH-60, old OH-58, old AH-64D, Mi-28N...).

Don't check the old OH-58 for now, for its DM physical model is offset from its viual model (it's fixed internally). You can see this in the model viewer.