waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[PhantomHans]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Paying someone for non-compliance with the terms of a contract would be a peculiar way to run a business. 

Eagle Dynamics is in GROSS violation of their contract with Razbam and has failed to pay Razbam for years.

2 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

@cfrag I suggested offering a payout to end the payment issue. This is one way to resolve the the problem and both businesses could part ways. In turn, this opens up opportunities for new and upcoming module developers to create replacements for the RB modules. 

I would love to see another developer buy out the IP from Razbam and resume support and development. 

 

The question becomes what is a fair offer, can anyone make said offer, will Razbam accept, and what happens to the outstanding balance owed to Razbam?

[Giggling Doom]

I'm just dropping 2 cents at this point but I believe that ED needs to refund (at least Partially) all Razbam modules. As I know quite a few DCS customers who barely expect ED to not break their own work every update. Also i mean there is no reason to think that keeping RB mods working and up to date is going to be anything except the back burner. I mean look what happened at the beginning of this mess. Also how long will they support it when they cant make money off it. I would question the legality of further sales as its still RB IP as well. Anyway that's my two cents with ED being part of this issue too it has some requirement to reimburse players of it game for modules that are questionable due to decisions they have made. you cant say the only option from ED was to choose the path that it has. 

 

 

Actually let me state this clearly. Every explanation of every issue in recent memory from ED I have ever read comes across as untrustworthy bull<profanity> along with most of its mods. I wish i could refund every Penny I spent on this Morally repugnant company.

Edited April 13 by Giggling Doom

[LordOrion]

4 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

I'm just dropping 2 cents at this point but I believe that ED needs to refund (at least Partially) all Razbam modules. As I know quite a few DCS customers who barely expect ED to not break their own work every update. Also i mean there is no reason to think that keeping RB mods working and up to date is going to be anything except the back burner. I mean look what happened at the beginning of this mess. Also how long will they support it when they cant make money off it. I would question the legality of further sales as its still RB IP as well. Anyway that's my two cents with ED being part of this issue too it has some requirement to reimburse players of it game for modules that are questionable due to decisions they have made. you cant say the only option from ED was to choose the path that it has. 

It is not ED that decided to stop all works on RB modules.

RB took that decision.

[bfr]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

Eagle Dynamics is in GROSS violation of their contract with Razbam and has failed to pay Razbam for years.

I know its a crazy concept but perhaps there is a entirely sound reason why ED began withholding those payments.

[bfr]

16 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

Why not target ED they are just as culpable based on public knowledge since they will not make a public statement about the issue ... many other companies in this situation have responded to accusations publicly. they should too .. 

They did make a statement at the beginning when RB first decided to drag a legal dispute out into the sunlight of a court of public customer opinion.  Not that the RB statements particularly aimed at laying out all the facts (good or bad) but rather just tried to pull emotional strings.

[LordOrion]

12 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

I understand that but they have not clearly sated to the player base more than oh they violated the contract..  nice even so really not paying them while continuing to sell their product until they ask you to stop stealing their IP ... yeah i understand that they claim that some other their IP was used improperly with a possible 3rd party .. but that in no way gives them the right to Steal Razbam's IP or sell it for profit while with holding compensation.

A nice attempt to turning tables here...

[scommander2]

As ED's promise, F-15E will be supported as a current "working" state.  How about DTC for example, will ED take F-15E into the DTC scope, or other ED on-going new features in the future?

Thanks.

[NineLine]

51 minutes ago, scommander2 said:

As ED's promise, F-15E will be supported as a current "working" state.  How about DTC for example, will ED take F-15E into the DTC scope, or other ED on-going new features in the future?

Thanks.

We cannot add new features to the RB modules. We can only maintain them as they are, sorry. 

[scommander2]

8 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We can only maintain them as they are,

Thanks, and good to know.

[Rosebud47]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb PhantomHans:

The point of that would be to show the court thay "I am upholding my end of the deal, they are the bad guys."

 

I'm sick of this whole thing.  ED has removed all Razbam products from the store.  Good first step.  Now give me all of my money back for all Razbam products, not some store credit that theres nothing I want to buy with, and then I'll be happy. 

It seems pretty clear that Razbam has gone the way of VEAO and that's fine as long as I'm not left holding the bag.

Refunding with store credits or ED miles or what its called isn t that bad. We re not talking about thousands of Dollars, just 50,-  - 80,-. I would also not ask for money back of the older modules of Razbam. After all, one who owns the older modules and the F-15E is still able to use them, well, until a mayor core change in DCS makes them unusable. But hey, I ve spend more money on other modules I don t use, than on Razbam modules. Lets be real. The store credits could also be saved, for a new module, for which one or another would spend real money anyways.

If the community really wants to help solving the issue, then everyone, who have bought the F-15E should ask ED for a refund; then the amount Razbam is claiming as not received payment, should be quickly minimized to not worth talking about. What I ve learned from this thread is, that using Razbam modules is like riding a dead horse. Surely not everyone may like the idea, but finally its a support for ED, not only to solve this crab, but also financial support ... I have immediately spent my refund for the Afghanistan map.

[PhantomHans]

2 hours ago, bfr said:

I know its a crazy concept but perhaps there is a entirely sound reason why ED began withholding those payments.

What, like, being bankrupt?

[bfr]

33 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

What, like, being bankrupt?

And your evidence to back this claim up is what exactly?

[Giggling Doom]

I could agree with That but  your assuming you only own one .. i own all 4 and i want my money back ... i know a lot of people want to defend ED cuz they make the game but the assumption that its all Razbams fault is odd. I'm not saying Razbam did nothing wrong never did but yall just assume Razbam is completely in the wrong in all ways... give it a rest and be reasonable. its never that cut and dry.

2 hours ago, LordOrion said:

A nice attempt to turning tables here...

Not turning tables just saying that the assumption that ED is in the rite without any solid statement is odd to me and i think people in general need to keep in mind its usually two issues that start a fight... 99% of the time someone does not walk in and start "Wailing" on the other .. usually there were multiple points at which the issue can be resolved.  And while rarely one side is completely logical and one is not .. more often than not both are at fault.. so i just want people to stop holding ED on a Pedi stool its not helpful for you and them.

[LordOrion]

21 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

I could agree with That but  your assuming you only own one .. i own all 4 and i want my money back ...

Actually I own F-15E, M-2000C, AV-8B NA and South Atlantic (I just ditched the Mig-19 cause I'm not interested in planes of that era).

And I whould prefer to get my modules finished and supported instead of my money back.

Edited April 13 by LordOrion

[Giggling Doom]

1 minute ago, LordOrion said:

Actually I own F-15E, M-2000C, AV-8B NA and South Atlantic (I just ditched the Mig-19 cause I'm not interested in planes of that era).

I would prefer to get my modules finished and supported instead of my money back.

they cannot finish them .. and keeping them working is different than keeping them up to date... i have posted this before and i will again .. i wish i could refund all of DCS software i no longer want to support them ... i don't trust them ... read between the lines this is about a contract issue.. so i would take a 25% refund ... hell i would do whatever it took if i thought there was a chance in hell but hey .. some times you just need to give up on a bad deal..   

i give it 5-1 odds that nineline deletes this too god forbid i don't cheerlead DCS and ED.   

[LordOrion]

23 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

...i know a lot of people want to defend ED cuz they make the game but the assumption that its all Razbams fault is odd. I'm not saying Razbam did nothing wrong never did but yall just assume Razbam is completely in the wrong in all ways... give it a rest and be reasonable. its never that cut and dry...

I believe that people who side with ED do so because RB's decision to block support and development of their modules is a form of blackmail that harms them personally. RB could have easily handled the situation differently, without involving them.

[Giggling Doom]

7 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Paying someone for non-compliance with the terms of a contract would be a peculiar way to run a business. 

 

I think he means that they should pay them for the work they did (not all of the money but some) and cancel any further partnership especially if they have been witholding profits after the dispute happened. but i may be wrong  

[Tank50us]

1 hour ago, Rosebud47 said:

I hope ED will make a Mudhen out of the announced F-15C one day, would be cool. Also liked the Harrier and hope another 3rd party might do a brand new Harrier at some point. In anyway there are enough fantastic modules around to enjoy.

As I've said in the past, if RB decides to fully sever ties, I do hope ED can get the source codes and assets for the modules in question, and give us some new features or new variations. Who knows, I wouldn't be at all surprised if ED made some variations if they got the code and assets, sold us those with the OG aircraft being 'free additions'... or something....

[LordOrion]

3 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

they cannot finish them .. and keeping them working is different than keeping them up to date... i have posted this before and i will again .. i wish i could refund all of DCS software i no longer want to support them ... i don't trust them ... read between the lines this is about a contract issue.. so i would take a 25% refund ... hell i would do whatever it took if i thought there was a chance in hell but hey .. some times you just need to give up on a bad deal..   

i give it 5-1 odds that nineline deletes this too god forbid i don't cheerlead DCS and ED.   

They had all the time to really finish most of them before this s**t exploded. But they did't, and the reason is not "evil ED did't pay us".

Try ask Zambrano where is the Harrier full manual he promised us many years ago...

[Giggling Doom]

1 minute ago, LordOrion said:

I believe that people who side with ED do so because RB's decision to block support and development of their modules is a form of blackmail that harms them personally. RB could have easily handled the situation differently, without involving them.

I know but so is withholding profits on something already sold.. .would it not have been better to end the contract and sue for damages instead of now having to maybe defend the withholding of all income related to this dispute. if this transgression is so bad .. then everything should have stopped at that point.. sales and everything ... i honestly believe it will be harder overall (not just legally but in reputation.) to make it seem like withholding earnings is better then canceling the contract because of non compliance.. then sueing for damages and mishandling IP..

1 minute ago, LordOrion said:

They had all the time to really finish most of them before this s**t exploded. But they did't, and the reason is not "evil ED did't pay us".

Try ask Zambrano where is the Harrier full manual he promised us many years ago...

yeah i understand you blame Razbam .. I'm saying ED caused this as well .. look any further conversation is like pissing into the wind based on the quoted statement there is absolutely no way further conversation will be of any use. 

[LordOrion]

10 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

I know but so is withholding profits on something already sold.. .would it not have been better to end the contract and sue for damages instead of now having to maybe defend the withholding of all income related to this dispute. if this transgression is so bad .. then everything should have stopped at that point.. sales and everything ... i honestly believe it will be harder overall (not just legally but in reputation.) to make it seem like withholding earnings is better then canceling the contract because of non compliance.. then sueing for damages and mishandling IP..

Ending the contract also means to actually kill the modules. Do you think customers would have been happy with such a decision taken by ED?

People would go to the ED headquarters with torches and pitchforks!

10 minutes ago, Giggling Doom said:

yeah i understand you blame Razbam .. I'm saying ED caused this as well .. look any further conversation is like pissing into the wind based on the quoted statement there is absolutely no way further conversation will be of any use. 

ED has his share of blame, but again, is RB that put on this blackmail while they cound have handled the dispute in a different way.

Edited April 13 by LordOrion

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

Try ask Zambrano where is the Harrier full manual he promised us many years ago...

 

I think Ron posted about that in the Harrier forum a few years back. IIRC, someone mentioned that the amazing Chuck's Guide author was having some kind of problem with the Harrier manual and hit a wall or something and Maybe RB was unable or unwilling to help. When it was brought up, Ron's dismissive response was "Well no one asked him to do it."

 

Oh yeah. That went over really well. 

[Rosebud47]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Tank50us:

As I've said in the past, if RB decides to fully sever ties, I do hope ED can get the source codes and assets for the modules in question, and give us some new features or new variations. Who knows, I wouldn't be at all surprised if ED made some variations if they got the code and assets, sold us those with the OG aircraft being 'free additions'... or something....

Sounds good, but I don't believe this is an option. ED would rather make the modules from scratch by themself, than buying the source code from others. If you think back to the Voice over IP feature, they have build in, instead of fully integrating SRS or if you think back of the spaghetti code with the Harrier, which caused a lot of trouble and bug after bug, because the original programmer was no longer available. Might be different with the F-15E, but ED is quite proud of their capabilities and I just don´t believe, buying the source code from Razbam is an option for ED.

[Pipe]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

I believe that people who side with ED do so because RB's decision to block support and development of their modules is a form of blackmail that harms them personally. RB could have easily handled the situation differently, without involving them.

The same could be said of ED's witholding payment = blackmail, also how they handled this. If they indeed hold the high ground in this dispute, they could have maintained business as usual. RB would have been paid for the SE, and development and updates would have continued. And guess what? We the consumer would not have any knowledge of the dispute, which seems to be exactly what ED wants

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

It's remarkable how fluid information is for some; flows in one ear and out the other.