Cage button vs auto acquisition mode

[Skyracer]

I don't get it.

In a dogfight what does the cage button do, what does it set the radar to do? And how does differ from auto acquisition mode?

[razo+r]

You should read the manual, it's explained there. 

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/systems/radar/air_to_air.html

[McVittees]

Essentially pressing the Cage button activates an acm mode.  You can then command the radar to lock anything in the boresight reticule (well actually it’s -9/+45 scan volume) within five miles by pressing the nosewheel/ auto-acquisition button on the base of the stick. To de-activate this acquisition mode toggle the weapon selection knob to ‘b’ (the 6 o’clock position) wait 1 sec, then toggle it back to whatever.

Thats more or less it, hope it helps.

Edited May 24, 2024 by McVittees

[some1]

3 minutes ago, McVittees said:

To de-activate this acquisition mode toggle the weapon selection knob to ‘b’

Easier to tell jester to go back to search mode by double clicking jester action button.

[Zabuzard]

CAGE mode, activated by the button on the throttle, is the pilots way to instantly command the aircraft into close range air to air mode.
They have added this upon pilot feedback in Vietnam, where they where perhaps doing a ground attack and then suddenly got jumped by a Mig. The complaint was that they do not want to take hands of their throttle and stick, having to select all the modes, weapons, arming,...
So they got the CAGE button which just overrides everything, sets you up for a boresight radar close range fight, automatically selecting the weapons and the HUD mode.

In CAGE mode, you can put a target on your pipper and then the WSO can lock it up (Jester Context action).

From CAGE mode, you can further enter a vertical scan mode with automatic locking, called CAA. The corridor used by CAA can be shifted left/right or put center. This is confusingly done by the weapon selection (Pinky Hat - Gun/Heat/Radar).

CAA is left by clicking the button again. CAGE is left by putting the weapon selector in or out of B. In either mode, Jester can also leave it by pressing the A2A button (Jester double click context action).

[Kageseigi]

45 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

From CAGE mode, you can further enter a vertical scan mode with automatic locking, called CAA. The corridor used by CAA can be shifted left/right or put center. This is confusingly done by the weapon selection (Pinky Hat - Gun/Heat/Radar).

I have a question about that. I try to enter CAGE mode with Heat selected. Then I enter CAA with Heat selected so the radar will be centered. But if I want to use/select Sparrows (Radar), how can I do that without shifting the radar to the right and losing lock if the target is in the center?

Maybe I'm having issues because of my stick. I'm using the VKB F-14 Gunfighter, so I have Gun-Heat-Radar set up to my GUN-SW-SP/PH weapon selector, and I think the weapon selector gives a constant button press in whatever position it's in. Or maybe it's something else, haha!

[some1]

Lock first, then switch weapons.

[MBot]

1 hour ago, Zabuzard said:

From CAGE mode, you can further enter a vertical scan mode with automatic locking, called CAA. The corridor used by CAA can be shifted left/right or put center. This is confusingly done by the weapon selection (Pinky Hat - Gun/Heat/Radar).

I think there is an error in the manual regarding this. Under 7.8 it says:

If you have the target aligned in boresight and command CAA with Sparrows selected, you will not get a lock because the CAA vertical scan will not pass though the boresight line.

[Zabuzard]

Good spot, thanks

[Zabuzard]

(fixed the manual)

[McVittees]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:49 AM, MBot said:

I think there is an error in the manual regarding this. Under 7.8 it says:

If you have the target aligned in boresight and command CAA with Sparrows selected, you will not get a lock because the CAA vertical scan will not pass though the boresight line.

Is the reason it won't pass through the boresight line because when the radar missiles is selected, it means the the pinkie switch is physically in the right position so the CAA vertical scan will then be to the right as well? Does this therefore mean that in CAA mode you can't change weapon as moving the pinkie switch will just move the scan cone instead? 

Edited June 5, 2024 by McVittees

[MBot]

8 minutes ago, McVittees said:

Is the reason it won't pass through the boresight line because when the radar missiles is selected, it means the the pinkie switch is physically in the right position so the CAA vertical scan will then be to the right as well? Does this mean that in CAA mode you can't change weapon as moving the pinkie switch will just move the scan cone instead? 

 

In CAA the pinkie switch does both simultaneously, it switches weapons and the scan zone. Therefore it is advisable to switch to Heat until you get the lock, then switch back to the weapon you actually want to use.

[markturner1960]

Been trying to learn this and getting a bit confused by the various modes etc. The above is clear I think. But I have the following queries:

There is no way to tell visually on the radar screen or reticule whether you have left cage mode is there? Above Zabuzard says "leave cage by clicking the button again" by which I assume he means the pinky switch? Does this mean just cycle it? Any change in position leaves cage mode ? I was thinking that cycling the pinky just alters the caged mode to suit the weapon selected.....? Selecting B also does not seem to indicate anywhere that cage is vacated. 

[Zabuzard]

Been trying to learn this and getting a bit confused by the various modes etc. The above is clear I think. But I have the following queries:
There is no way to tell visually on the radar screen or reticule whether you have left cage mode is there? Above Zabuzard says "leave cage by clicking the button again" by which I assume he means the pinky switch? Does this mean just cycle it? Any change in position leaves cage mode ? I was thinking that cycling the pinky just alters the caged mode to suit the weapon selected.....? Selecting B also does not seem to indicate anywhere that cage is vacated. 

CAA is an extra mode behind CAGE mode.

The transition is from normal radar behavior to CAGE/BORESIGHT by pressing the CAGE button on the pilot throttle. You can identify that mode by seeing the classic boresight returns (returns are on the centerline only) and the range being limitted to 5 nm automatically. The WSO also has the Aor-To-Air lamp/button illuminated. You can understand this mode as pilot controlled forward looking mode where you can put a target on the pipper and then let the WSO lock it. It is quite good.

Then, from CAGE/BORESIGHT, you can enter CAGE/CAA mode by pressing the (NWS/NGS?) switch on your stick.
This mode is identifiable by seeing the antenna jump around left and right automatically on the bottom of the display.
CAA can be understood as close range vertical scan mode with autolockon. It is useful especially in turnfights where the bandit isn't on your nose anymore but above. It is a bit prone to bad locks though. Its vertical scan zone can be shifted to either left, center or right, based on the throttle pinky hat (radar/heat/gun). After you have acquired your lock, you can select the actual weapon you want to use again.
Any CAGE mode (boresight or caa) can be fully left back to normal radar behavior by either moving the weapon selector in or out of B, or the WSO clicks the Air-To-Air lamp/button.
CAGE/CAA can be left back to CAGE/BORESIGHT by pressing the (NWS/NGS?) switch on your stick again. This is also useful if you got a bad lock to quickly reattempt it again.

[MBot]

I think there might be some confusion because there are two pinkie switches. One on the stick and one on the throttle.

The Cage button on the throttle engages the cage mode (radar boresighted, 5 NM range).

Once you are in cage mode, pressing the pinkie switch on the stick activates the CAA mode (vertical scan).

Once CAA vertical scan mode is engaged, the pinky switch on the throttle (3-way) moves the CAA scan zone left/center/right, in addition to also always switching weapons.

Pressing the pinkie switch on the stick after you have achieved a lock with CAA breaks this lock an returns to the CAA vertical scan.

Pressing the Cage button on the throttle always returns the radar to the cage mode (boresight, 5 NM range).

 

To leave these dogfight modes completely its best to tell Jester to return to a regular scan by double pressing his action buttonn. You should be able to tell by the radar screen displaying a normal left/right sweep again.

Edited June 5, 2024 by MBot

[markturner1960]

OK, so what does using the weapon select B position do that any of the above methods of leaving cage dont? 

[MBot]

Just now, markturner1960 said:

OK, so what does using the weapon select B position do that any of the above methods of leaving cage dont?

Nothing, its just a (very cumbersome) way for the pilot to leave the cage mode himself instead of the WSO doing it.

[skywalker22]

31 minutes ago, MBot said:

I think there might be some confusion because there are two pinkie switches. One on the stick and one on the throttle.

The Cage button on the throttle engages the cage mode (radar boresighted, 5 NM range).

Once you are in cage mode, pressing the pinkie switch on the stick activates the CAA mode (vertical scan).

Once CAA vertical scan mode is engaged, the pinky switch on the throttle (3-way) moves the CAA scan zone left/center/right, in addition to also always switching weapons.

Pressing the pinkie switch on the stick after you have achieved a lock with CAA breaks this lock an returns to the CAA vertical scan.

Pressing the Cage button on the throttle always returns the radar to the cage mode (boresight, 5 NM range).

 

To leave these dogfight modes completely its best to tell Jester to return to a regular scan by double pressing his action buttonn. You should be able to tell by the radar screen displaying a normal left/right sweep again.

 

Thats some complicated system and a bit with no sence (moving CCA zones and switching weapons at the same time). Doubt it was designed that way IRL, it just doesn't make any sence.

[MBot]

My understanding is that the dogfight modes were an afterthought, a mod based on expierience in Vietnam. So they just used the switches that were already there.

[3000 Black Jets of Allah]

37 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Thats some complicated system and a bit with no sence (moving CCA zones and switching weapons at the same time). Doubt it was designed that way IRL, it just doesn't make any sence.

It did work like that IRL and it makes perfect sense, if you're in a turn and the target is above or below you, you can use the guns or radar pinky modes to point the radar that way for a lock, same as if you are locking something up to the left or right of your nose.

[markturner1960]

OK, and in relation to the Heatblur Phantom, how does having jester active change anything in the process? How quickly does he lock the target for example, how reliable is this, is it better to switch him off ? etc etc.....

 

[Q3ark]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

OK, and in relation to the Heatblur Phantom, how does having jester active change anything in the process? How quickly does he lock the target for example, how reliable is this, is it better to switch him off ? etc etc.....

 

Jester is most useful while still in a beyond visual range situation. Just like a real WSO he’ll struggle to get a lock close in, you need to be using cage and CAA modes when in close. 
 

this short video will explain things better than I can. 
 

 

[Zabuzard]

OK, and in relation to the Heatblur Phantom, how does having jester active change anything in the process? How quickly does he lock the target for example, how reliable is this, is it better to switch him off ? etc etc.....
 

Jester will be the one doing the lock in CAGE/BORESIGHT mode. You simply put the pipper on target and he locks him up, its quite easy and generally very reliable. More reliable than the autolock from CAA.

Also, Jester can leave CAGE a bit more convenient than you. You can just double tap the context button and he will leave it for you. Better than reaching out to the weapon knob.

And yes, as others stated, this is how it worked IRL. It was slapped onto the plane in hindsight after they complained that they lack a way to quickly react to getting jumped by a MiG while they are in some A2G modes. So they added the CAGE button to the throttle and repurposed NWS/NGS as CAA button and the pinky hat as zone selector for CAA. For leaving CAGE they had no better idea than using the unused B position on the weapon knob.

CAGE overrides most switch settings and immediwtely puts you into a A2A state ready to fire weapons at bad guys in front without having to take hands of throttle and stick to first select modes and arm weapons.

[Phantom711]

I think what might confuse people about the CAGE/Boresight mode is, that they know the terminology from other Jets like the F-16 or F/A-18 and expect it to work the same way. It confused me initially at least.

I guess in the Phantom, that mode is not a mode designed primarily for dogfighting, but rather against unsuspecting or less maneuverable targets (i.e. bombers) since the pilot needs to stabalize the pipper on the target quite well in order to have the WSO achieve a lock. Might be worth mentioning that aspect in the manual. 

[Zabuzard]

I think what might confuse people about the CAGE/Boresight mode is, that they know the terminology from other Jets like the F-16 or F/A-18 and expect it to work the same way. It confused me initially at least.
I guess in the Phantom, that mode is not a mode designed primarily for dogfighting, but rather against unsuspecting or less maneuverable targets (i.e. bombers) since the pilot needs to stabalize the pipper on the target quite well in order to have the WSO achieve a lock. Might be worth mentioning that aspect in the manual. 

I guess it depends a bit on how well you communicate with the WSO.
His job is to keep the cursor on the return and follow it. Wait for the Pilot to say "now" (target within 5° cone, i. e. on pipper) and then the WSO just needs to press trigger and the target is locked.

Jester is pretty good at it from my experience and can do it as I pull the reticle through the target even.

But yeah, CAGE/BORESIGHT isn't a mode for while you are already in a heavy dogfight but for the moment right before the fight begins, when you acquired visual on a target that is about to start a fight with you.
During the turnfight, CAA is whats generally used.