Force feedback Joystick from Moza

[Mr_sukebe]

3 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Even though I have no money fttb, questions:

Anyone flying this with extension? I have a 200mm goose neck and not sure if this works well.

Also, in real life, does F-16 HOTAS have force feedback?

 

I watched a vid yesterday which included a review.  The user tried his Virpil F14 grip and 200mm extension and had 2 concerns:

- his view was that the extension resulted in the torque being effectively decreased by the point that it reaches the grip (leverage).  His comment being that 100mm might be a better compromise

- he mentioned that some of the buttons didn’t work as expected with the Virpil grip.  Unfortunately, he didn’t state what those issues were, so I’ve no idea if he meant that a single button wasn’t working, or maybe all of them

 

As a user of a Virpil grip with 200mm extension, I’m looking to understand better

[some1]

3 hours ago, Bucic said:

Doesn't it have at least a weight bob like the F-5E?

No, not to my knowledge. The stick is a relatively simple device with springs and eddy current dampers. The computer takes care of translating stick position to flight controls input,  depending on the flight mode. So it can work as g-command, aoa-command, pitch rate, or something in between.

Edited September 24, 2024 by some1

[Aapje]

@Mr_sukebe

Reports suggest that the base does not support the more advanced Virpil functions, so you have axes working as buttons and such. VPforce fixed this for the Rhino, so Moza can to, in theory. We will have to see whether they will do so.

And given how high the base is of itself, with effectively a decent extension already built in, it seems that to get the equivalent of a 200 mm extension for a non-FFB base, you need less of an extension. That also will dampen the strength less.

[Deezle]

I'm using a 20cm Virpil extension with mine and I don't find it to be too weak at all. I wouldn't go longer, though.

[Biggus]

Perhaps grip weight is an important part of the equation when dealing with an extension.

 

[MAXsenna]

Perhaps grip weight is an important part of the equation when dealing with an extension.
 

I've seen people mod the MS FFB2, and adding counter weights under the base on a pass through stick.

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[petsild]

That was a dead end.

[pierscockey]

Mine arrived today.  Got it mounted and had a bit of a play with a few modules (and a bit on MSFS) and so far so good.  
 

I will definitely need to spend a bit of time fine tuning, but the presets aren’t bad.  Some of the roll axis are super light which doesn’t feel right, but the pitch pressure building with speed is very cool.  F16 is impressive too.  
 

I’m trying to get my head round whether I need to be getting rid of my curves in axis tuning.  If DCS is able to replicate the actual stick feel, then adding curves is going to mess things up, right?

[MAXsenna]

Mine arrived today.  Got it mounted and had a bit of a play with a few modules (and a bit on MSFS) and so far so good.  
 
I will definitely need to spend a bit of time fine tuning, but the presets aren’t bad.  Some of the roll axis are super light which doesn’t feel right, but the pitch pressure building with speed is very cool.  F16 is impressive too.  
 
I’m trying to get my head round whether I need to be getting rid of my curves in axis tuning.  If DCS is able to replicate the actual stick feel, then adding curves is going to mess things up, right?

YES! DO NOT USE CURVES with FFB. It's a sin and mess things up. Especially when trimming, and especially when trimming helicopters.
Cheers!

EDIT: Absolutely no saturation too. And check if you need to swap the axis under FFB tuning.

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[pierscockey]

8 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

YES! DO NOT USE CURVES with FFB. It's a sin and mess things up. Especially when trimming, and especially when trimming helicopters.
Cheers!

EDIT: Absolutely no saturation too. And check if you need to swap the axis under FFB tuning.

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Ha, excellent. Thanks!  

[petsild]

How do Moza profiles actually work, do I have to upload an adequate profile for each DCS module?

[Deezle]

8 hours ago, petsild said:

How do Moza profiles actually work, do I have to upload an adequate profile for each DCS module?

It's best if you fine tune a profile for each module. Basically the profile first says whether to use direct input, telemetry, or both. Then you set the basic stick forces like spring, inertia, damping, friction, motor torque, game feedback overall strength, ect. Then you can tweak things like axis travel if you wish, I set all mine to 80% max since I have an extension. Then there's the telemetry settings, for things like stall buffeting, weapon effects, ETL, VRS (working improperly at the moment), ect.

[petsild]

So there is one factory profile for all DCS modules, and if I change the plane to a helicopter, does the force trimmer work automatically?

[MAXsenna]

So there is one factory profile for all DCS modules, and if I change the plane to a helicopter, does the force trimmer work automatically?

If you map a button for the trimmer in every helicopter in DCS, (sans the Chinook pre-patch), have enabled FFB in DCS and select the default trim mode under specials. It should work out of the box. At least it does for the MS FFB2. While I assume you need to have DX mode enabled on the Moza.
And like I wrote some posts above, you might need to swap axis. Can anyone confirm this?
Cheers!

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[petsild]

I know how it works for MS2, I wonder how Moza will handle it.

[Hammer1-1]

man, I am really leery about that price for the base....seriously I cant see how they can make this thing well built AND that cheap at the same time. definitely going to have to wait and see how this one plays out.

[MAXsenna]

man, I am really leery about that price for the base....seriously I cant see how they can make this thing well built AND that cheap at the same time. definitely going to have to wait and see how this one plays out.

Why would it be so hard to transfer from racing to flight when you pretty much have all of what you need in order already? Probably already have "discounts" from vendors lined up. Maybe even the production line in place. They could probably even sell it for cheaper.
It ain't exactly rocket science, is it? You being in the industry and all.

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I know how it works for MS2, I wonder how Moza will handle it.

Should work exactly the same if it can utilise DirectX which DCS supports out of the box. I assume.

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[Hammer1-1]

9 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Why would it be so hard to transfer from racing to flight when you pretty much have all of what you need in order already? Probably already have "discounts" from vendors lined up. Maybe even the production line in place. They could probably even sell it for cheaper.
It ain't exactly rocket science, is it? You being in the industry and all.

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Should work exactly the same if it can utilise DirectX which DCS supports out of the box. I assume.

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Im not questioning whether or not they can move from racing to flight sims, Im questioning their built qualities. Ive heard numerous complaints about the quality of their racing gear over the past month, and the overall price range for the base is just....too much of a coincidence for me. I even have a problem with quality from Winwing too...I had to replace one of my MIPS panels recently because a USB-C connector was never soldered in. It took me months to figure that out, and certainly Winwing's 1 year replacement policy should have warned me too. I just...dont know. The Brunner goes for 1500 bucks; VPForce, $800 and its a home built kit. Same with FFBeast. I get the mass manufacturing discounts, but I can say these 3rd party home built mods...yeah, obviously...going to suffer from some sort of build qualities until they get on their game, but they arent outsourcing their stuff to people who have safety nets on the side of their buildings so they cant jump off the roof. I just dont see how that price being low is a good thing. Ill have to wait and see.

[MAXsenna]

Im not questioning whether or not they can move from racing to flight sims, Im questioning their built qualities. Ive heard numerous complaints about the quality of their racing gear over the past month, and the overall price range for the base is just....too much of a coincidence for me. I even have a problem with quality from Winwing too...I had to replace one of my MIPS panels recently because a USB-C connector was never soldered in. It took me months to figure that out, and certainly Winwing's 1 year replacement policy should have warned me too. I just...dont know. The Brunner goes for 1500 bucks; VPForce, $800 and its a home built kit. Same with FFBeast. I get the mass manufacturing discounts, but I can say these 3rd party home built mods...yeah, obviously...going to suffer from some sort of build qualities until they get on their game, but they arent outsourcing their stuff to people who have safety nets on the side of their buildings so they cant jump off the roof. I just dont see how that price being low is a good thing. Ill have to wait and see.

I get that, and I agree with what you say. Moza is at least local for you, and will probably honour the warranty.
What is it anyway?

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[Hammer1-1]

only warranties I could find at Moza are for the racing stuff at the moment; their bases go for 24 months while everything else goes for either 12 (wheels, pedals...controllers types ), 6 months (power supplies, cables), and none for the accessories. 24 months isnt bad for a base, but VKB and Virpil are two years themselves, but they still support repairing their stuff beyond the warranty. It costs money, yes...but I know these sticks will last and they have a track record. They arent nothing hard to repair when you get the replacement parts, much like Thrustmaster stuff. again, Id have to see because I dont know whats inside that box nor how well its built.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Youtch]

I haven t seen yet any stress test of the Moza FFB base, like we saw with Rhino.

This will tell us more about quality and design.

It would be good to see how long it can last in warbirds long turn fight.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Youtch

[freehand]

Jabba 18 mins in does a stress test.

[Hammer1-1]

15 minutes ago, freehand said:

Jabba 18 mins in does a stress test.

a 1 hour stress test isnt nothing to write home about. its the first year of owning it with regular use is going to be like. are the gears plastic? if anything is belt driven, what type of rubber are they using? are the motors cheap chinese knockoffs? think that box looks nice for a reason, dressed up with a leather dust protector...again I just want to know whats inside, really. After my experience with this winwing panel Im tired of cheap crap.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[freehand]

5 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

a 1 hour stress test isnt nothing to write home about. its the first year of owning it with regular use is going to be like. are the gears plastic? if anything is belt driven, what type of rubber are they using? are the motors cheap chinese knockoffs? think that box looks nice for a reason, dressed up with a leather dust protector...again I just want to know whats inside, really. After my experience with this winwing panel Im tired of cheap crap.

 

Have you looked at the video ?

[Hammer1-1]

Im watching it now actually...