Petition to Prioritize MiG-21 Update? Anyone?

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

the community is free to develop a mig-21 mod at anytime, no need for M3 to "let it go".

Probably not even legally feasible for them to do so. It's not just a simple matter of "lmao here go nuts, guys"

Not that I'd trust the community all that much since half the time I see citations of performance involving older and lighter Fishbeds.

Edited October 3, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[artao]

16 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

the community is free to develop a mig-21 mod at anytime, no need for M3 to "let it go".

True. It would be a nice head start tho eh. And some good will, ya know?
"The first module released for DCS is now open to the community"

Dreams. heheh. It's a source of income for M3 AND ED. so yeah no. <shrug> But a man can dream, can't he?

Edited October 4, 2024 by artao

[303_Kermit]

15 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Probably not even legally feasible for them to do so. It's not just a simple matter of "lmao here go nuts, guys"

Not that I'd trust the community all that much since half the time I see citations of performance involving older and lighter Fishbeds.

 

How true. I look for high quality module , not a mod with simplified unverified FM.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

12 hours ago, artao said:

True. It would be a nice head start tho eh. And some good will, ya know?
"The first module released for DCS is now open to the community"

Dreams. heheh. It's a source of income for M3 AND ED. so yeah no. <shrug> But a man can dream, can't he?

 

Only, it's not just a matter of 'more income.'

Having a community gain total access under the hood is, at best, a recipe for unstable code. At worst? It's a security concern.

On top of that, I inevitably see discussions about current MiG-21's FM is inaccuracies, then the references provided are figures involving MiG-21PFMs and F-13s as faced by Phantoms over Vietnam. Having the Fishbed's performance oscillate between performance variances and having multiple examples of an FM competing for inclusion would be a disaster.

Community development is not the answer.

[artao]

We need to convince the companies making all the combat planes for MSFS to come on over and get 'em runnin in DCS as well. LOL

..

As if

[PawlaczGMD]

On 10/3/2024 at 5:53 AM, Rudel_chw said:

the community is free to develop a mig-21 mod at anytime, no need for M3 to "let it go".

I think he means for M3 to open-source the existing module, which is not a reasonable request, as much as I'd like it updated.

[Schmidtfire]

13 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I think he means for M3 to open-source the existing module, which is not a reasonable request, as much as I'd like it updated.

Perhaps an official MiG-21bis overhaul could done with a group of volunteers under the Magnitude 3 banner? Just like China Asset pack.

It's a Win-Win.

Magnitude 3 and ED can enjoy some increased sales (Cold War is booming). The players get to enjoy an improved module and developers who
love to spend time on the MiG.  

However, I'm quite certain that the code is so old that it would be very though for a newcomer to get up to speed and sort the module out.
Some years back, I talked to a person who had insight in the early development of the MiG-21bis module. According to him, there is a limit how much
can be done without ripping the whole thing apart and start over. This module started as a mod, before the concept of 3rd parties was on the map.

That's why I think Magnitude 3 reaching out to others in the community might be a good start for getting the module back on track and polished.
Adding the realistic reticle and RWR options are signs of deeper issues and technical debt. It could be good to get some fresh eyes and enthusiasm
into the project.

Edited October 7, 2024 by Schmidtfire

[nessuno0505]

Do Magnitude 3 developers read this forum?

I think every virtual pilot in their right mind would pay some money to see a Mig-21 worthy of its name!

[artao]

11 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

Perhaps an official MiG-21bis overhaul could done with a group of volunteers under the Magnitude 3 banner? Just like China Asset pack.

It's a Win-Win.

Magnitude 3 and ED can enjoy some increased sales (Cold War is booming). The players get to enjoy an improved module and developers who
love to spend time on the MiG.  

However, I'm quite certain that the code is so old that it would be very though for a newcomer to get up to speed and sort the module out.
Some years back, I talked to a person who had insight in the early development of the MiG-21bis module. According to him, there is a limit how much
can be done without ripping the whole thing apart and start over. This module started as a mod, before the concept of 3rd parties was on the map.

That's why I think Magnitude 3 reaching out to others in the community might be a good start for getting the module back on track and polished.
Adding the realistic reticle and RWR options are signs of deeper issues and technical debt. It could be good to get some fresh eyes and enthusiasm
into the project.

 

I like how you think, great ideas!!
Now if only Mag3 saw this ........
 

7 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

Do Magnitude 3 developers read this forum?

I think every virtual pilot in their right mind would pay some money to see a Mig-21 worthy of its name!

Indeed. Do they even care? Would users approaching them even matter?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 10/8/2024 at 1:09 AM, nessuno0505 said:

Do Magnitude 3 developers read this forum?

Yes: look on page 2 of this thread for example.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 10/7/2024 at 6:09 PM, nessuno0505 said:

Do Magnitude 3 developers read this forum?

I think every virtual pilot in their right mind would pay some money to see a Mig-21 worthy of its name!

They do, but it isn't a question of will.

It's a question of resources.

[nessuno0505]

Il 10/10/2024 at 23:01, MiG21bisFishbedL ha scritto:

It's a question of resources.

But they have resources for the Christen Eagle? 

[zildac]

But they have resources for the Christen Eagle? 

Fella in the back with the pot of crayons is working on that.

[MysteriousHonza]

On 10/8/2024 at 1:09 AM, nessuno0505 said:

Do Magnitude 3 developers read this forum?

I think every virtual pilot in their right mind would pay some money to see a Mig-21 worthy of its name!

They do... they asked BN to close ONLY viable and extremely good bug report for its FM so they dont have to deal with it. 

We are at point where ED should just step in and give ultimatum - overhaul this clickable sub FC3 quality trash or we will remove it from shop/take over it. 
Its in unacceptable state and is absolutely out of quality standards of even modules years old. Mig-19 or M2000 were in terrible state too, similar quality to 21. Both were given outstanding reworks. Mirage 2000C went from one of the worst simulated fighters to BEST simulated fighter in DCS. 
It is NOT acceptable that ED sells this slop, let alone for the price its set at.
I have no idea how they can even sell something like that. This product is so dated, it should have been removed long time ago without proper rework of FM, DM and avionics.
We need whole new mig at this point. Best would be if someone went and did F-13 and MF.
 

[Art-J]

^ An old software product is an old software product, simple as that. There's only so much that can be done with it before rework stops being financially viable given time and human resource limitations. Noone's going to "take over" for the very same reason either.

None of that rant you wrote makes much sense except for the current pricing part that I agree with fully. However, it's been ED's policy for quite a few years now to keep standard pricing of all oldest modules stable and high whether they're maintained or not so I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

[artao]

All I know is this isn't a good look for Magnitude 3. I for one have total 100% lack of confidence in them doing ... well ...... ANYTHING really. The F-4 Corsair is still vaporware after how long now? It sure seems like they're defunct, or at least rapidly headed that way. Their interest in maintaining regular development seems nil to non-existent. If they read these forums they've seen this thread. But any actual word? No, not really. One inconsequential post from one guy. Once. Which addresssed nothing and only reenforced my feeling that they don't really care anymore. They're not into it, I doubt anything even gets worked on weekly, maybe monthly. And have zero business sense or they'd be on top of the MiG-21 situation.

I enjoy the module. I fly it plenty. It's one of my faves. I can overlook the foibles, but sometimes they just rear up in your face and you can't ingnore it. <cough>RSBN<cough>engine power<cough>

We won't be getting a better MiG-21 of any sort until some other company picks it up or the user community tackles it. Either way, it's years away. Still tho, sooner than Mag 3 would do it.

I've been thinking that maybe part of the problem is the focus on the details of the model. Which really isn't important at all to playing the game. The FM, DM, avionics, etc ... THOSE are all the most important things. I'd rather fly a box with a totally accurate systems and flight and damage model then an aircraft that looks exactly like the real thing but has a crappy FM etc.
We don't need nuts and bolts and rivets modeled. No one cares if the cockpits are freakin laser-scanned. (Cleaning up a laser scan is a serious time consuming PITA as well). No one cares of the dials and switches are accurate to the milimeter. If they do, they're playing the wrong game/simulator.
Early access would be a lot cooler if the avionics and such were the detailed focus with crappy looking models and textures.

Edited October 14, 2024 by artao
grammar and spelling corrections, clarification

[nessuno0505]

The a-10c is "old software product" too, but it's been reworked and updated and it's up to date with newer modules: if you want a true growing platform you either keep its modules updated or deprecate them, there's no third way. I feel very sad to say since it was one of the best modules back in 2015, but this Mig-21 is now the worst third way possible.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:49 PM, nessuno0505 said:

But they have resources for the Christen Eagle? 

Yes. That's how it goes. Also, the Eagle exists because they needed experience in the creation of a prop engine model for the Corsair, so the work on the former is applicable to the latter (or vice versa), probably.

The MiG-21 is still playable, it isn't broken. But, what it really needs? Mag3's undivided attention. It's art assets are outdated, obviously, and some flight dynamics need to be looked at. So, honestly, we need to be asking what is taking the Corsair so long? Sure, better a TF2 or STALKER than a Daikatana or a DNF, but still.

Edited October 15, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Mainstay]

@-Rudel- Are you guys planning on reworking the MiG-21Bis or not? Its a simple question and maybe a less simple answer to give but at least we know whats going on...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, Mainstay said:

@-Rudel- Are you guys planning on reworking the MiG-21Bis or not? Its a simple question and maybe a less simple answer to give but at least we know whats going on...

https://magnitude-3.com/2024/07/13/2024-summer-update/

Our beloved Fishbed, while on break, is not forgotten.  Rest assured work will be started again once our core team has time.  More information can be found in our Summer ’22 update.  Link below:

[Red Yeti]

According to ancient Mayan prophecies, it will be possible to fly the reworked MiG 21 BIS in Half Life 3.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 hours ago, Red Yeti said:

According to ancient Mayan prophecies, it will be possible to fly the reworked MiG 21 BIS in Half Life 3.

Yeah, but they also played second fiddle to the Aztecs, eventually.

The Nahuan princess I know is predicting it to coincide with the full release of DNF 2001.

[artao]

On 10/16/2024 at 7:59 AM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Summer ’22 update.

Emphasis mine. 2022 update. ........ yeaahhh

[Kobymaru]

On 10/16/2024 at 2:59 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Our beloved Fishbed, while on break, is not forgotten.  Rest assured work will be started again once our core team has time.  More information can be found in our Summer ’22 update.  Link below:

I feel so reassured about Mig21 development by the reassuring words in the yearly newsletters that I completely forget about the complete absence of patches to the module and the ever-increasing list of breakages that has been going on for the last decade.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 hours ago, artao said:

Emphasis mine. 2022 update. ........ yeaahhh

It's still an update from this year that is referencing '22. It's definitely not ideal, but not much can be done until their resources are freed up.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

I feel so reassured about Mig21 development by the reassuring words in the yearly newsletters that I completely forget about the complete absence of patches to the module and the ever-increasing list of breakages that has been going on for the last decade.

Tough, I guess? I don't like it either. But, it is what it is.