CASE III switch time for sunset?

[Nealius]

I understand CASE III starts "30 minutes before sunset," but either the carrier doesn't seem to follow this, or the Navy definition of sunset is different than the civil definition. E.g. sunset for Marianas on 25AUG2024 is 18:37, so I would expect CASE III to start at 18:07. However it does not. When flying, I got CASE I instructions when calling in at 18:15. Trapped at 18:20 and had NC grade because it apparently switched to CASE III while I was in the pattern. Testing without aircraft in the pattern and time acceleration, the carrier lights--which I assume in DCS signals CASE III--came on at 18:32.

I couldn't find anything about a nautical sunset time, only a nautical twilight, which doesn't seem to apply here.

When does the module make the switch to CASE III, and how do I figure out what time this occurs via the mission editor when it doesn't seem to follow the 30 minutes prior rule, nor appears to be consistent when testing same date on the same map.

EDIT: Doesn't seem to help that official documentation disagrees on CASE III timing as well. CNATRA says "between 30 minutes prior to sunset to 30 minutes after sunset." DCS-focused comunity documentation written by former Charlie drivers and former/current Rhino drivers agrees with CNATRA. CVNATOPS says "one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise." The latter sounds odd for CASE I considering the low light conditions. 

Edited August 25, 2024 by Nealius

[jerzem]

Hi,

Some times ago I tested this in detail. Here is the hyperlink. I will hope this can help you.

 

[Nealius]

Interesting that it's set 12 minutes prior to sunset when CNATRA states:

Quote

For the purpose of determining Case III operations, night is defined as 30 minutes prior to sunset until 30 minutes after sunrise.

 

[Tusky]

Actually, NAVAIR 00-80T-105 CV NATOPS Manual states: 

6.4 Case III
This approach shall be utilized whenever existing weather at the ship is below Case II minimums and during all flight operations conducted between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise except as modified by the OTC or carrier commanding officer.

[Gierasimov]

On 8/25/2024 at 12:30 PM, Nealius said:

 

I couldn't find anything about a nautical sunset time, only a nautical twilight, which doesn't seem to apply here.

 

Could be the reason why it is not accurate in DCS then. Maybe ED didn't find either and used some approximation, but frankly, in the last 15 years of DCS it is clearly visible that the in-cockpit is striving for the most realistic experience, everything outside of cockpit in DCS is approximated based not only on the data availability but also knowledge, code base and talent employment, but also this is a game and game design will have some shortcuts for various reasons, including but certainly not limited to intended audience. 

I am amongst people who sometimes forget that the World part of the product name, does not mean that everything is simulated as in the real world. Digital Cockpit Simulator should be the true name. 

[Nealius]

On 10/24/2024 at 4:19 PM, Tusky said:

Actually, NAVAIR 00-80T-105 CV NATOPS Manual states: 

6.4 Case III
This approach shall be utilized whenever existing weather at the ship is below Case II minimums and during all flight operations conducted between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise except as modified by the OTC or carrier commanding officer.

And CNATRA T-45 training materials state what I did. Which of them is correct?

P-816, p2-4:
 

Quote

Case III weather is any ceiling below 1,000 feet or a visibility less than 5NM. All night operations are conducted under Case III. For the purpose of determining Case III operations, night is defined as 30 minutes prior to sunset until 30 minutes after sunrise.

 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Nealius

[Tusky]

hace 2 horas, Nealius dijo:

And CNATRA T-45 training materials state what I did. Which of them is correct?

Good question! 

I believe that the NAVAIR document has more operational weight than the CNATRA instructional document and that in case of contradiction, the former prevails. The latter does not even reference the NAVAIR procedure in its text... 

[Nealius]

I recall in the Fighter Pilot Podcast episode on carrier recoveries, interviewing the CATCC that voiced our supercarrier, it was also mentioned that CASE III night was 30 minutes prior to sunset, though I'll need to find a timestamp for that. Thinking critically, 30 minutes after sunset does not give enough illumination for a safe CASE I recovery in DCS, though that could be the lack of dynamic range we get in a video game versus what the human eye is capable of in real life. 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Nealius

[draconus]

Haven't checked but it maybe changed over the years and were correct for the docs' dates.