only mt now ST map is blank.

[Sérvalpilot]

In ST, the map does not load any terrain features at all.

It looks like this:

null

[rob10]

Reported issue.  Use MT and it will work.  May or may not be fixed in ST going forward since ST will be depreciated (removed) likely in the fairly near future since these types of bugs are starting to pile up in ST.  It was announced last year sometime that ST was on it's way out.

[Sérvalpilot]

I don't know which version is buggier at this point!

I guess I'll switch to MT.

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Sérvalpilot said:

I don't know which version is buggier at this point!

I guess I'll switch to MT.

You might as well.  Today's newsletter announced that ST will be fully deprecated with the next patch.

[waterman]

13 hours ago, rob10 said:

 

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by waterman

[silverdevil]

13 hours ago, waterman said:

Hope the Train Animations are fixed in MT before i am forced to do the new trend of Downgrading.

Have to find a Stand aloan DCS older ST Version to use the trains.

What a mess of a situation !

Steam will not allow us to downgrade so stand alone it has to be.

Trains in MT with locked Animations look very very bad like a kids toy Santas Sleigh simulator.

No one listens to me - some probebly find my comments funny !

have you considered moving from Steam to Standalone? then you can keep the version you want to use.

you could at least start a new thread about your issues with trains. piggybacking on someone else's thread that has noting to do with your issue is not helpful to you.

ST goes away next patch. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/eeb5fbf6ee0f9b2752a078d2142e866b/

[waterman]

"piggybacking on someone else's thread that has noting to do with your issue is not helpful to you"

My comments and interest have now been removed have a nice day.

[Hikaruncat]

MTだとちょっと面倒なのでSTでやってみました。
私のPCはi7 3770なので、MTだとCPUが常に90%以上で止まってしまいます。ST
だと60%くらい、メモリ使用量も50%くらいで落ち着きます。
操縦からタイトル画面への移行やコックピットの描写が明らかに速くなりました。ゲーム終了時もSTの方が圧倒的に速いです。
ただ、ゲーム中のFPSはMTだと40～60だったのがSTだと20～40に落ちました。

また、ST でもこのスレッドの問題を確認しました。

The map disappears

Edited September 7, 2024 by Hikaruncat

[MAXsenna]

MTだとちょっと面倒なのでSTでやってみました。
私のPCはi7 3770なので、MTだとCPUが常に90%以上で止まってしまいます。ST
だと60%くらい、メモリ使用量も50%くらいで落ち着きます。
操縦からタイトル画面への移行やコックピットの描写が明らかに速くなりました。ゲーム終了時もSTの方が圧倒的に速いです。
ただ、ゲーム中のFPSはMTだと40～60だったのがSTだと20～40に落ちました。
また、ST でもこのスレッドの問題を確認しました。
The map disappears

In ST, not in MT.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Maverick87Shaka]

please note that ST is going to disappear from next release, so, no reason to stai with that.
MT it will be the new standard for DCS.

[SkateZilla]

ST has long been depreciated and only left in as a Failsafe/bug check function, for a while now the default shortcuts and command lines from Updater have pointed to MT, the only way you'd be consistently launching ST is if you manually made a shortcut to it.

[silverdevil]

18 minutes ago, waterman said:

My comments and interest have now been removed have a nice day.

i was not trying to offend. just saying that you should start another thread about trains problem. your plea will get lost in this thread.

[waterman]

Ok no worries i will start my own detailed thread tomorrow thanks.

[kksnowbear]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:22 AM, SkateZilla said:

ST has long been depreciated and only left in as a Failsafe/bug check function, for a while now the default shortcuts and command lines from Updater have pointed to MT, the only way you'd be consistently launching ST is if you manually made a shortcut to it.

This.

Yes, ST has been deprecated for some time now - but, more significantly, it's not whether you run MT directly that actually resolves the map problem.  As mentioned, the typical Updater desktop link has long since run the MT version of DCS.exe (since ~October 2023?)  See here:

In order to prove that the Updater link does in fact call the MT version of DCS.exe, I can (and have) gone into the bin-MT folder, renamed the DCS.exe to DCS.old, whereupon running from the Updater link will fail (because there's no DCS.exe in the bin-MT folder anymore).  This proves conclusively that Updater does run the MT version of DCS.  (Also, I further verified this by doing the same test with the ST folder version of DCS.exe, which of course had no impact on running from the Updater link, because Updater doesn't use the ST version anymore).

My map still shows up fine when I run from the Updater link (which, again, runs the DCS.exe in the bin-MT folder).

The difference is I didn't actually update yet.  When Updater presents the dialogue box showing my current version and asking me if I want to update, I've been clicking "Later" (for my own reasons, not related).

Some players are apparently confused regarding the fact that Updater actually runs the MT version for some time now...

...but now this issue with maps (etc) is being confused as "You have to run MT directly".  If you're using the Updater, you're already using the MT version of DCS.exe - the exact same file that people run manually by navigating to the folder and running it from there.  There is zero difference; none.  Nada.  Zilch.  You can prove it for yourself by doing the simple renaming test I described above.

The difference is that once you've updated past a certain version, something in Updater is actually doing something else which in turn causes the map problem.  It's not the MT version of DCS itself that's causing the difference (because if it were, running the MT version manually would presumably still have the map problem).

It is NOT whether you run the MT version of DCS manually.  Again, you're already doing that even if you use the Updater link created by a default installation.

The problem is elsewhere, related to Updater.  Running the MT version directly isn't solving the problem at the source, it's simply bypassing Updater (which is causing the issue).  You have to understand that there's no rule or law anywhere saying that Updater is only allowed to update.  "Updater" is just a name; the program will do whatever it's written to do (in this case including, unfortunately, breaking the map somehow).

Why does this distinction matter?

Well, it doesn't matter at all to me personally, but if a player - out of convenience, laziness, lack of understanding the problem, some combination of these, or whatever other reason(s)- decides to get wise, delete the Updater link, and create a link directly to the MT version (which many players have done)...this creates the potential for actually causing a problem.

How? Well, this very set of circumstances with the map illustrates conclusively that Updater is absolutely capable of doing other things besides just running DCS.exe from a specified folder.  Updater is a compiled executable, and that means that unless someone has access to source code, they can't change what Updater actually does internally, and they cannot directly 'see' what it does, either.

The developer(s) at ED use the Updater mechanism for a reason.  Whether we like it or not, that is their decision, not ours.  While it might seem clever to bypass the Updater by going directly to a folder and running DCS.exe, doing this is factually skirting the intentions of the people writing the software.

For example: Updater is capable of messing up the maps, and it's also capable of doing other stuff.  Suppose ED modifies Updater in such a way that it fixes some problem(s).  Again, not up to us how they go about it, and the Updater link would do exactly what they intend, Updater itself being an exe that can also be updated at ED's discretion.  It can do whatever they want it to.

If, however, a player decides to get clever and go directly to the DCS.exe in the MT folder, they won't get whatever benefit exists from any changes ED might make to Updater.

Also, since the developers don't necessarily know you've circumvented their intentions, it could be more difficult to help find/fix a problem caused by having doing so.  And no one could really blame them since you're not running the game the way they provided (via Updater).

At that point, it's potentially created additional burden on what limited support resources there are.  That doesn't help anyone, and in fact could hurt everyone.

Let me re-emphasize that although I am absolutely running the MT version of DCS, I can still choose not to update, even when I use the Updater link.

And, in this case specifically, my map still works fine - not because I run DCS.exe from the MT folder directly (I don't), but because I chose not to update when asked.

If somehow the map got messed up, that's unfortunate and I imagine it'll get fixed...but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to always run DCS.exe from the bin-MT folder directly.

It's important to understand the difference, because otherwise you can actually cause problems.

Sorry for the long post but I hope this clarifies an important distinction which could cause harm if confused.

(Note: There is the possibility that the most recent version of Updater has been changed such that it doesn't call the MT version of DCS.exe anymore.  I don't know, because I haven't updated and I don't have source code, either.  If someone wants to know, it can be proven by doing the renaming test above.  And if it's been changed in this respect, well, that's an entirely different conversation.  Maybe this is the change where ED doesn't use the bin-MT folder or the ST versions...don't know, and I'm not gonna update and break my map just to find out...but it's possible.  Regardless, always running DCS.exe directly from the MT folder is not necessary and is also ill-advised, as outlined above...if you don't want to update, simply choose "Later" when Updater asks)

[SkateZilla]

A. Clicking "Later" still launches the DCS.exe from Bin-MT\.
B. I repeated the process of clicking later, and DCS Launched in MT Mode, and the Map is fine.
C. Users reporting this issue are users that are launching directly into ST Mode using modified shortcuts and/or command line arguments..

The Updater Launches, Checks the Server Version #, Prompts for Updates and either applies them or doesnt, clicking "Later" Launches the DCS.exe and Exits DCS_Updater, 

Launching Updater, Clicking Later, should not have any affect on DCS.exe itself, 

THE ONLY time you would see a difference, is if your DCS.exe shortcut has command line arguments added to the file path, because clicking "Later" does not populate the arguments from your shortcut.

[kksnowbear]

I understand what you're saying (basically same thing I said, sorry if it wasnt clear) with one exception:

I am currently working with a fellow DCS player who says he has the map problem when running from Updater, but not when running dcs.exe directly from the bin-MT folder.

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear

[SkateZilla]

1 minute ago, kksnowbear said:

I understand what you're saying (basically same thing I said) with one exception:

I am currently working with a fellow DCS player who says he has the map problem when running from Updater, but not when running dcx.exe directly from the bin-MT folder.

please attach dcs.log files for both instances.

run DCS directly, get into mission goto map, exit, attach dcs.log

run Updater click later, get into mission goto map, exit, attach dcs.log.

Edited September 13, 2024 by SkateZilla

[kksnowbear]

I'll leave it to him if he wants to do that.  He's already pissed at me for telling him to stop running MT directly, because when he did it broke the map (not that it's my fault).

PS I think the difference might be related to the fact that when it happened to him, he actually updated. 

That's why I said above that it didn't happen to me because I picked Later.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.

To be clear none of this changes my point that Updater calls the MT exe, (has for a long time), and that running MT "directly" from the folder is not necessary, is ill-advised, and can cause problems of itself (since Updater is an executable that *can* do whatever ED decides).

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear

[silverdevil]

i am not sure where the change for me occurred. i have always been running the shortcut in the Start Menu which has not been updated since 2021 when i installed DCS. i run the icon and it calls dcs_updater.exe. i always get MT when DCS opens after any updates (or no updates). i am unsure how it decides which subsequent dcs.exe to run.

null

[kksnowbear]

33 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

i am not sure where the change for me occurred. i have always been running the shortcut in the Start Menu which has not been updated since 2021 when i installed DCS. i run the icon and it calls dcs_updater.exe. i always get MT when DCS opens after any updates (or no updates). i am unsure how it decides which subsequent dcs.exe to run.

null

It is "hard coded" Updater is configured by default to call the MT version.  It can't be changed without source code, but people have been circumventing Updater by running the MT version directly from the bin-MT folder.

That's the reason I posted, to illustrate why it's a bad idea to circumvent Updater, unless you know what you're doing (and actually understand the repercussions.)

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear
Changed my error re: Updater

[silverdevil]

6 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

That's the reason I posted, to illustrate why it's a bad idea to circumvent Updater

got it and i agree.

[SkateZilla]

7 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

It is "hard coded" in the Updater to call the MT version.  It can't be changed without source code, but people have been circumventing Updater by running the MT version directly from the bin-MT folder.

That's the reason I posted, to illustrate why it's a bad idea to circumvent Updater, unless you know what you're doing (and the repercussions.)

It's not hardcoded, it's the 2nd to the last line in the autoupdate.cfg
 

 "launch": "bin-mt/DCS.exe"

 

But Like I said, I launch DCS.exe directly in either mode. I only use DCS_Updater to update. There is no repercussions to launching dcs.exe directly.

Like I said, the only difference would be if there is launch arguments in the shortcut for DCS, that are not present when launching the .exe directly, in which case it's User Error / Bad Shortcut, not Circumventing Updater.

I haven't launched DCS through the Updater.exe in over 5 years, I've always launched dcs.exe directly, or if I want to update dcs_updater.exe directly w/ command line to only update, then close.

So we'd need to see logs to see what parameters they are launching with in both instances, because the MAP issue is related to ST, as some of the functions were re-coded for UI / MT Performance.

Edited September 13, 2024 by SkateZilla

[kksnowbear]

29 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

36 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

It is "hard coded" in the Updater to call the MT version.  It can't be changed without source code, but people have been circumventing Updater by running the MT version directly from the bin-MT folder.

That's the reason I posted, to illustrate why it's a bad idea to circumvent Updater, unless you know what you're doing (and the repercussions.)

Expand  

It's not hardcoded, it's the 2nd to the last line in the autoupdate.cfg
 

Ah...I stand corrected. Thank you. (lol never actually checked it)

Yes, I see your point...not sure then why he has/had the map issue.  I gather he hadn't updated in some time.  But he indicates he did update most recently, so (I assume) his Updater link/version would be calling the MT version as expected.

I say "circumventing Updater" because he's now convinced that is why the map works, thus making it a good idea to bypass Updater.  He's not taking into account that (assuming a proper default Updater), there's no need to run dcx.exe directly from the bin-MT folder.  Something else is wrong (as you indicate).

(lol All I know is I got blamed for the map issue because I told him he didn't need to run dcs.exe manually, since the Updater has done it by default fir almost a year now).

Like I said, though, this entire discussion reinforces why circumventing Updater is not the best idea *unless* you know what you're doing.  And it *is* still a compiled executable, so it can do whatever ED programs it for - doesn’t have to be configurable at all or exposed to the user in any way.

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear

[SkateZilla]

57 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Ah...I stand corrected. Thank you. (lol never actually checked it)

Yes, I see your point...not sure then why he has/had the map issue.  I gather he hadn't updated in some time.  But he indicates he did update most recently, so (I assume) his Updater link/version would be calling the MT version as expected.

I say "circumventing Updater" because he's now convinced that is why the map works, thus making it a good idea to bypass Updater.  He's not taking into account that (assuming a proper default Updater), there's no need to run dcx.exe directly from the bin-MT folder.  Something else is wrong (as you indicate).

(lol All I know is I got blamed for the map issue because I told him he didn't need to run dcs.exe manually, since the Updater has done it by default fir almost a year now).

Like I said, though, this entire discussion reinforces why circumventing Updater is not the best idea *unless* you know what you're doing.  And it *is* still a compiled executable, so it can do whatever ED programs it for - doesn’t have to be configurable at all or exposed to the user in any way.

 

can bet his autoupdate.cfg points to the the ST dcs.exe

[kksnowbear]

29 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

can bet his autoupdate.cfg points to the the ST dcs.exe

And I have no argument...could easily be that.

Still, it remains that there is no real need to run dcs.exe from bin-MT in order to "make sure" you're running the MT version of DCZ.

And it is possible that doing so might cause problems at some point.  Hence, "ill-advised" in my estimation.  ED can change whatever they want (in the Updater executable), and the average user might have no idea.

Particularly since ST won't even be applicable soon enough, no reason at all for most players to jack around with the way it's set up to work.  In fact, one could argue that - if you're right about the Updater being pointed at ST - then that (almost certainly) means it was messed up by jacking around with it  

These were kinda my points in posting.

 

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear