ka50 goes out of control

[leafer]

I'm not exactly sure of the sequence of events but I went from stable hover to all over the place. I think it happened while I slewed for another target after killing one. It happened twice and the second time I realized all three auto pilot modes turned itself off. How did that happen?

[wickedpenguin]

I'm not exactly sure of the sequence of events but I went from stable hover to all over the place. I think it happened while I slewed for another target after killing one. It happened twice and the second time I realized all three auto pilot modes turned itself off. How did that happen?

 

How low to the ground were you? If you get too low the autopilot switches itself off. Someone else will have to tell you the exact altitude you have to descend to have that happen, as I don't recall. If you're getting a "lower gear" aural voice alert chances are your AP's going to be switching itself off.

 

Also, did you take any hostile fire? If your hydraulic system is damaged - "MAIN HYDRO" warning flashes on the EKRAN display - your hydraulics will bleed out and you'll lose your autopilot systems (along with other things, such as your landing gear extension and cannon traverse). Once the hydraulics fully die, whichever autopilot buttons you had selected will start flashing to let you know they're no longer operating.

[zdXu]

How low to the ground were you? If you get too low the autopilot switches itself off. Someone else will have to tell you the exact altitude you have to descend to have that happen, as I don't recall.

 

Less or equal 4 Meters above ground.

[zdXu]

I'm not exactly sure of the sequence of events but I went from stable hover to all over the place. I think it happened while I slewed for another target after killing one. It happened twice and the second time I realized all three auto pilot modes turned itself off. How did that happen?

 

Here the same. 4 autopilots on inclusve hover. 50 meter hight. I was looking through the skhval or on the ABRIS (i cant remember) and suddenly i realized my bank was ca 110 angular degrees. I tried a correction for 1/2 second or so but i couldn't get the heli under control. I decided to eject. The last thing i realized my catapult seat fired me parallel to the ground, then a short parachute-fly then the hard impact ...

 

Searching for the Red-box with the .TRK-file (i was in multplayer) is still in progress

Edited June 22, 2009 by zdXu

[159th_Viper]

If you get too low the autopilot switches itself off.....

 

Auto-Descent, not AP ;)

[McVittees]

This has happened to me a few times too, but I've never had the presence of mind to save the track so i could review what happened.

[EtherealN]

If you have it happen to you again, see if you can save a track. That should help figuring out what exactly happened.

[leafer]

I had plenty of alt when it happened. I tried to replicate the problem today but no go. Might be a bug? It happened twice yesterday. I don't remember being hit but I know it wasn't hydralic because I, later, lowered the gear. Also, the auto pilot buttons weren't flashing. I should have saved the trk; I'll remember to do it next time. But it was odd though.

[Nate--IRL--]

If you haven't flown again, the track is automatically saved in the TEMP folder as LastMissionTrack.trk.

 

Nate

[leafer]

I flew since but thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that.

[Panzertard]

I'm not exactly sure of the sequence of events but I went from stable hover to all over the place. I think it happened while I slewed for another target after killing one. It happened twice and the second time I realized all three auto pilot modes turned itself off. How did that happen?

 

These are some similar incidents where I have experienced the same:

- Accidently pressing LShift-A(?), was typing in MP forgot to use the chat.

- Hover altitude below 4m to obstacle (not ground, but obstacles such as houses, but not trees).

- Low Rotor RPM / some subsystems turns off (not sure if the AP modes are the first to go though).

- Excessive conditions at Hover, wind/turbulence, AP might turn off.

- Taking damage / near misses (Stinger / Sams exploding nearby). Yeah, happen to me 3 times in one mission online.

- Loosing Main Hydro (the final result from the above incident).

- Switching to "Backup Nav / Fail" on the "Targeting Computer" - not sure if it disables the AP meanwhile, but I would assume that it is possible.

- Builtin mission "failures". (I can swear ED set them at 100% into all my missions)

 

You've already excluded a few of these points. But maybe there are some other that you are not aware of yet?

My 2 cents - Over time I've come to accept that there are some factors while you are flying which cause this - and not bugs. :)

[spikenet]

digging up a really old one here..

 

Any thoughts on this issue where the damping turns itself off randomly? It seems to always do it to me when I've got my head buried in the shkval shooting targets then the 3 buttons start flashing and the heli goes out of control. Usually got autohover engaged also..

 

Is this a realistic "failure" in the missions or a bug??

 

cheers

[Nate--IRL--]

There are a few instances where it does happen, any time the Doppler system gets confused (under 4m hover or it hasn't fully initialised) this will happen.

 

But there is also what I believe to be a rare bug where it happens in Auto Hover for no apparent reason.

 

It has never really been caught properly, but things have been tweaked in the systems related to this and I haven't seen it lately in my internal build, so fingers crossed it has been fixed.

 

Nate

[spikenet]

ok great. Its been happening nearly every mission so I will save a track next time.

 

Its not a showstopper, but it gets you going when your only 50m off the deck and it gets loose on you!

[Cali]

If you haven't flown again, the track is automatically saved in the TEMP folder as LastMissionTrack.trk.

 

Nate

 

All your flights are saved in there unless you go and delete them. Which you may have to do cause it can take up a lot of space.

[Booger]

There are a few instances where it does happen, any time the Doppler system gets confused (under 4m hover or it hasn't fully initialised) this will happen.

 

QFT^

 

This was discussed in pretty good detail as well as the correct "controlling"/responsible system identified. The actual discussion starts on post # 15.

With elevation not a concern, the big "teller" if your DNS hasn't initialized is the lack of ground speed indicated on your HUD.

 

If...

 

• you're well above 4m
  
• the ground speed is displayed on your HUD
  
• result is still flashing AP button lights/loss of control
  

...it's safe to assume that something has gone nutty. That .trk, for sure, is one to attach for the gurus to look at.

[EbonySeraphim]

It's also possible if you were 'slowly' descending while in hover mode, your rate of descent increased and you entered a vortex ring state. I know it's easy enough to tell if this happened normally, but if you're concentrating too hard on the Skhval screen, especially at long ranges, its easy to lose track of what the Ka-50 is up to.

 

I noticed that catastrophic warnings or important indicators are present on any screen the pilot may be looking at in the A-10 and F-16. I wish the Skhval had an ADI and radar altimeter.

[Nate--IRL--]

It's also possible if you were 'slowly' descending while in hover mode, your rate of descent increased and you entered a vortex ring state. I know it's easy enough to tell if this happened normally, but if you're concentrating too hard on the Skhval screen, especially at long ranges, its easy to lose track of what the Ka-50 is up to.

 

I noticed that catastrophic warnings or important indicators are present on any screen the pilot may be looking at in the A-10 and F-16. I wish the Skhval had an ADI and radar altimeter.

 

It does have a Radar alt, but only up to 50m - which I suppose is useless if you enter a vortex ring.

 

Nate

[riboyster]

Maybe recheck your key/stick bindings? I don't think I've ever had anything like that happen to me, regardless of how low I fly. My only thought is the possibility of taking small arms fire to the hydraulic system, or wind shear.

[Booger]

Noting his comments, he includes the symptoms of the DNS not completing it's initialization before auto-hover is engaged...

 

...the damping turns itself off...

...the 3 buttons start flashing and the heli goes out of control. Usually got autohover engaged also..

 

If you enter a Vortex Ring State, it doesn't disable your AP.

 

From the topic I linked in my post above...

 

...it takes the DNS 150 seconds from start-up to come 'online' for lack of a better word.......wait the period out and you should have ground-speed indication at lift-off and accordingly will be able to engage auto-hover immediately, altitude restrictions allowing.

[EbonySeraphim]

It does have a Radar alt, but only up to 50m - which I suppose is useless if you enter a vortex ring.

 

Nate

I guess I haven't noticed because I usually hover at considerably higher altitudes if I'm actually using the Shkval, especially for an extended period of time.

[adam12]

I have noticed several times where I am caught in a descent that I can never break out of. Adding power doesn't help. I think the blades are stalling out, and if you don't have enough altitude for some "zero pitch" time (to build up blade speed) you're in a situation you can't get out of. Eject.

[EtherealN]

You are most likely experiencing Rotor Vortex Ring State - that is, your rotor disc is caught in it's own downwash. This can happen very easily if you descend fast (5m/s or more) while going slow (less than 50km/h). As you noticed, adding power does not help - it only makes the vortex ring stronger and make you sink faster.

 

The solution is to add forward speed to get you over 50km/h - pull cyclic forward until the shaking stops. If you are very low when you enter this state, though, all you can do is ither brace for impact or eject. Always be very mindful of your variometer (there is a variometer repeater on the right side of the HUD as well) when moving slow or hovering.

[adam12]

Does the sim model mountain effects on RVRS?

[ericinexile]

ok great. Its been happening nearly every mission so I will save a track next time.

 

Its not a showstopper, but it gets you going when your only 50m off the deck and it gets loose on you!

 

I can easily replicate this every flight. I don't even notice anymore. I've flown whole missions with the dampeners disabled realizing it only when hovering seemed more of a challenge than normal. As Spikenet states, it's no showstopper and I doubt this would result in the loss of control the OP describes.