Why do I need the F-15E in my life? [no Razbam discussion please!]

[Sunbather]

I am thinking about buying the F-15E. The Razbam vs ED situation does NOT play into my decision, I have already discussed this with myself so please don't make any arguments here based on 'the situation'.

So basically, I am asking myself: Why would I need the F-15E when I already own the F-16 and F/A-18C? Or should I rather go for another fighter jet that differs more from those two than the F-15E?

Yes, the F-15E excels in strike missions which are among my favourite missions by the way. But the Viper and the Hornet can do the same, right?  Here are some things that I found out myself:

+ the F-15E has much more fuel, hence can travel a much longer distance before the need of AAR

+ the F-15E can carry much more ordinance than the other jets

+ the F-15E has an extraordinary A2G-radar

+ the F-15E can release multiple JDAMS at the same time on different targets

+´the F-15E has a sexy and useful NAVFLIR

 

And here some disadvantages that put the F-15E behind the other two jets in my opinion (again, please no disussion about the situation, I know that some of the missing features might still come or will never come, let's talk about the current state of the F-15E)

- no helmet-mounted cueing system --> no TOO capability or at least it is much harder to mark the TOO

- no Link-16 --> worse situational awareness

- very little variation in armaments, basically the same the F-16C has minus the HARMS (which is a big deal for me. I usually want at least one new 'weapon' when I buy a new DLC)

 

What do I make of this? Did I forget something? How do you feel about the  base question? Do the F-16 and F/A-18 make the F-15E superfluous in your virtual hangar?

 

Maybe one last bit of information from me: currently I am mostly playing singleplayer DCS Retribution and I would like to change things up a bit, in that I can fly a different aircraft in each new mission. I am also playing a lot of Israeli scenarios and as I understand it, the F-15E even has a IAF model. Hence, the F-15E seems like an ideal aircraft.

Edited January 25 by Sunbather

[LordOrion]

My 2 cents: Mudhen is a really good and fun module right now, even if it is missing a lot of useful features.

That said, buying it while the "situation" is not come to an (hopefully positive) end is a bit too much risky for my taste: up to you decide if it is worth pay 60+ bucks for something that might become discontinued soon.

Edited January 31 by LordOrion

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

- Low-level flying is a lot of fun in the F-15E, and you can do it forever given the ridiculous amount of fuel you can carry  
- It is also very respectable in BVR (I in fact completed the FC3 F-15C campaign with the F-15E since it's a purely BVR campaign and there's no need to dogfight).
- The wide HUD is incredible!
- It has a usable sunvisor so people with sensitive eyes won't get a headache and get nauseous when flying it.
- The lack of datalink can also be an advantage: without all-seeing-eye you need to pay a lot more attention to building a picture in your head and watching your surroundings. This increased tension is an advantage in a PC simulator IMHO.
- Older TGP that has quirks but is more interesting to use than the fantasy pod the F-16 currently uses.

[HwSpring]

One of my favourite things about F15E is its A2G radar, and the fact it attempts to simulate Scintillation - it is special option, which can be turned on. As far I am aware none of the other A2G radars in the sim can do that. Just in case you wonder what the hell is Scintillation - very simply - it does show other radar reflectors in very distinctive way - almost like a star or flash on your A2G SAR. Since radar antennas are reflectors - they reflect your radar beam quite well (I have simplified it here as it also depends on radar band and multitude other factors), resulting in the return coming back a lot "brighter" than other stuff. 

Check out Pukin Dog video explaining and showing this feature: DCS: F-15E SAR Scintillation Advanced Tutorial

I would also highly recommend checking out 10 Percent True video interview with Mike "Starbaby" Pietrucha F15E WSO - in the video he shows his tapes of SA3 kill near Mosul, Iraq in 1998 - including radar picture, as that is how he narrowed down exact location of the site after it launched missiles at them. He is former EWO Wild Weasel and explains quite a lot about both subjects. Link to video: (188) F-15E Mosul SA-3 Strike: Starbaby Walkthrough - YouTube

Another reason I absolutely love F15E is because it is two crew. If you manage to find somebody to fly with and get good at respective tasks - it is a blast. 

 

 

Edited January 26 by HwSpring
Corrections

[statrekmike]

If it were on a pretty significant sale, I would say that it could potentially be a safe purchase but even when we don't specifically talk about the RAZBAM/ED situation, the module isn't finished. I know that some are happy enough with what is there but that doesn't negate the fact that it is missing a good chunk of its intended feature-set and that is not something that should be overlooked.

 As it stands. I would honestly hold off. There are plenty of other modules that are in a much better overall state of completion.

[Gman109]

Love and agree with everything I'm reading here.  Great post OP!

Here's my 2 cents.  Avoiding the 'situation" specifics at least....

 

ED would be wise to announce a new "F15EX" model at some point in the near future should the "situation" not move towards resolution.  Ed is already doing an F15C model.  They could cut previous F15E customers a "deal" on it sales wise.  IMO this could/would satisfy a great many players who love all the A2G stuff with the Strike Eagle being discussed and mentioned here, while supplementing/replacing the F15E module.  And so forth.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, or post something about it here, I just don't have the time or inclination to read through all the forums, or use the incredibly frustrating search function to check.  

[MAXsenna]

4 minutes ago, Gman109 said:

ED would be wise to announce a new "F15EX" model at some point in the near future

Hopefully an E first. 

[Waffle 1-1]

You are essentially buying a toy, regardless of which module you pick. I’m not a movie-going man but if I were, the f15 is maybe the same cost as two movies. Let’s say after 6 hours of flying I would break even against that. So I would do it. Chances of it breaking within those 6 hours are slim.

Yes. The situation is sad and I do hope it gets resolved. But if this is a plane you want to fly: it is really fun and while I’ve been on a warbirds excursion, once I am done with that it’s back to the F15. It is not complete and you miss some creature comfort but what is there has been developed to a very high level of detail.

[draconus]

Must buy if you're Eagle fan. Otherwise you won't find many new toys here.

+TFR

+best DCS radar model

+great FM

[Sunbather]

Am 25.1.2025 um 11:33 schrieb LordOrion:

My 2 cents: Mudhen in a really good and fun module right now, even if is missing a lot of useful features.

[...]

Am 25.1.2025 um 15:31 schrieb Raven (Elysian Angel):

- Low-level flying is a lot of fun in the F-15E, and you can do it forever given the ridiculous amount of fuel you can carry  
- It is also very respectable in BVR (I in fact completed the FC3 F-15C campaign with the F-15E since it's a purely BVR campaign and there's no need to dogfight).
- The wide HUD is incredible!
- It has a usable sunvisor so people with sensitive eyes won't get a headache and get nauseous when flying it.
- The lack of datalink can also be an advantage: without all-seeing-eye you need to pay a lot more attention to building a picture in your head and watching your surroundings. This increased tension is an advantage in a PC simulator IMHO.
- Older TGP that has quirks but is more interesting to use than the fantasy pod the F-16 currently uses.

Am 26.1.2025 um 03:37 schrieb statrekmike:

If it were on a pretty significant sale, I would say that it could potentially be a safe purchase but even when we don't specifically talk about the RAZBAM/ED situation, the module isn't finished. I know that some are happy enough with what is there but that doesn't negate the fact that it is missing a good chunk of its intended feature-set and that is not something that should be overlooked.

 As it stands. I would honestly hold off. There are plenty of other modules that are in a much better overall state of completion.

Am 29.1.2025 um 23:39 schrieb draconus:

Must buy if you're Eagle fan. Otherwise you won't find many new toys here.

+TFR

+best DCS radar model

+great FM

 

I pulled the trigger shortly after having read all your messages and it was very much worth it. The F-15E does exactly what I want: change up things when playing DCS Retribution. It feels so different than the F-16C! It feels heavier and much more powerful, evading SAMs is a joy, the huge fuel tank is a relief, the pilot cockpit delightfully uncluttered. The workload is insane, obviously, as there is a WSO seat for a reason but I do manage the A/G radar and the TPOD in combination with the Smart Weapons menu quite well already. Air to Air works much better than I expected. The sun visor is not to be underestimated! Yes, as a module with stopped progress and unknown future, 40€ or even 30€ might have been a more reasonable price.

 

Things I miss:

- HMCS

- more armament like SDBs

 

The real problem:

- I am now even more invested in the whole 'situation' and I hope the F-15E stays playable for a long, long time with all the current features and maybe even some additions.

 

Edited January 31 by Sunbather

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

8 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

The workload is insane, obviously, as there is a WSO seat for a reason but I do manage the A/G radar and the TPOD in combination with the Smart Weapons menu quite well already.

And in Single Player you can use active pause to switch to the WSO seat to manage things there, to simulate 2 people each actively following their own dedicated workflow.

[Sunbather]

Am 26.1.2025 um 01:30 schrieb HwSpring:

One of my favourite things about F15E is its A2G radar, and the fact it attempts to simulate Scintillation - it is special option, which can be turned on. As far I am aware none of the other A2G radars in the sim can do that. Just in case you wonder what the hell is Scintillation - very simply - it does show other radar reflectors in very distinctive way - almost like a star or flash on your A2G SAR. Since radar antennas are reflectors - they reflect your radar beam quite well (I have simplified it here as it also depends on radar band and multitude other factors), resulting in the return coming back a lot "brighter" than other stuff. 

Check out Pukin Dog video explaining and showing this feature: DCS: F-15E SAR Scintillation Advanced Tutorial

I would also highly recommend checking out 10 Percent True video interview with Mike "Starbaby" Pietrucha F15E WSO - in the video he shows his tapes of SA3 kill near Mosul, Iraq in 1998 - including radar picture, as that is how he narrowed down exact location of the site after it launched missiles at them. He is former EWO Wild Weasel and explains quite a lot about both subjects. Link to video: (188) F-15E Mosul SA-3 Strike: Starbaby Walkthrough - YouTube

Another reason I absolutely love F15E is because it is two crew. If you manage to find somebody to fly with and get good at respective tasks - it is a blast. 

 

 

Years ago, travelling on foot through Spain, I wondered what the proper term for 'sparkling stars' is. It was then that I found out about "Scintillation".

I've never thought about tieing it to how radars work. Then again, I've just started to really learn about radars like 6 months ago.

So thank you for your post! And yes, the A/G was one of the most important reasons why I feel drawn to this module.

 

Am 26.1.2025 um 05:08 schrieb Gman109:

Love and agree with everything I'm reading here.  Great post OP!

Here's my 2 cents.  Avoiding the 'situation" specifics at least....

 

ED would be wise to announce a new "F15EX" model at some point in the near future should the "situation" not move towards resolution.  Ed is already doing an F15C model.  They could cut previous F15E customers a "deal" on it sales wise.  IMO this could/would satisfy a great many players who love all the A2G stuff with the Strike Eagle being discussed and mentioned here, while supplementing/replacing the F15E module.  And so forth.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, or post something about it here, I just don't have the time or inclination to read through all the forums, or use the incredibly frustrating search function to check.  

Thanks for not only not snapping at me for making such a post but in fact complimenting me for it! Thanks! I really had questions regarding content and wasn't at all trying to tackle the drama. And I think it is great that everyone here understood what I was trying to ask about!

Yes, F-15EX would be great but I agree with:

Am 26.1.2025 um 05:13 schrieb MAXsenna:

Hopefully an E first. 

In any case, the F-15E or whatever other strike variant should never be missing from DCS from here on out!

 

Am 29.1.2025 um 21:58 schrieb Waffle 1-1:

You are essentially buying a toy, regardless of which module you pick. I’m not a movie-going man but if I were, the f15 is maybe the same cost as two movies. Let’s say after 6 hours of flying I would break even against that. So I would do it. Chances of it breaking within those 6 hours are slim.

Yes. The situation is sad and I do hope it gets resolved. But if this is a plane you want to fly: it is really fun and while I’ve been on a warbirds excursion, once I am done with that it’s back to the F15. It is not complete and you miss some creature comfort but what is there has been developed to a very high level of detail.

I've heard this argument so many times already! "This new 79,99$ game is still dirt cheap. Dinner with my wife is 100$ and it only lasts 2 hours!" Or another classic, your variant: "Going to the movies twice is 60$!"

Well, here in a big city in Germany, going to the movies is about 10€. I also don't go the movies because too much crap is produced nowadays and every time someone sits behind me with popcorn despite the theatre being completely empty. It would make more sense to compare it to a Netflix subscription. 60€ is 5 months of Netflix subscription.

Even if we take going to the movies as example: a curated, compressed experience in the outside world is not a good equivalent to a game in which there are many downtimes (traversing the world, setting things up etc.).

And if you are really adamant on comparing things: I like to read. I get about 100 hours of enjoyment out of a book that cost me 13€, minus all of the costs that are accompanying the other hobbies like energy and fuel costs.

Yet another aspect, and sorry that I am assuming that you are American: when it comes to daily purchases, 60€ gives you much more buying power than 60$. Meaning e.g. that a sandwich in a city in the USA is 15$ while you get the the same for 8€ in Germany.

Sorry for the rant. I don't try to attack you but I am tired of this argument because it is flawed in so many ways.

Regarding your second paragraph, hahaha: now that I've paid and played the plane, I wholeheartedly agree. Completely worth it and I woudn't wanna miss it ever again!

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Raven (Elysian Angel):

And in Single Player you can use active pause to switch to the WSO seat to manage things there, to simulate 2 people each actively following their own dedicated workflow.

I did this way too many times already. Felt a bit like cheating. Also, I am then hanging like a sitting duck in the air. Or are you invisible when on active pause?

Anyways, both the A/G radar and the TPOD have such a big reach that, in theory, I have enough time to prepare my bombs, if I give myself enough ingress time.

Edited January 31 by Sunbather

[Beirut]

It's my Space Shuttle of Death. 

 

It's big, fast as stink, it's got the payload, the TF radar, the excellent A2G radar. It's just cool from stem to stern. I'm an A2G flyer, so while the F-15C does nothing for me, the F-15E is da bomb! Regardless of it's unfinished status, it's great fun to fly. 

[MAXsenna]

49 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

In any case, the F-15E or whatever other strike variant should never be missing from DCS from here on out!

 

On this we agree! 

50 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

It was then that I found out about "Scintillation".

Are you saying it's not a Tom Cruise thing?  

[Jayhawk1971]

Also tinted visor.

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Also tinted visor.

 

I would not have bought it otherwise. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Are you saying it's not a Tom Cruise thing?

Scintillation? Not exclusively: https://youtu.be/M_1g1N4ilQM?si=lSD-MsHftCqy1-wN

(purposefully not embedded or I'll get naughty points again )

 

1 hour ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Also tinted visor.

Already mentioned earlier.

 

3 hours ago, Sunbather said:

Or are you invisible when on active pause?

I haven't tested it myself yet, but I think it just freezes your motion while the rest of the DCS world continues on its merry way so you might want to be careful using this.

[HwSpring]

Thank you Sunbather, I am glad you are enjoying mudhen so far. 

Doing Pilot and Wizzo job at the same time is challenging, no doubt - after all the plane was designed to be two-seater for the reason. There are few things you can do to help you with the workload and develop your own workflow. 

What I found very useful and helpful was this video from Iain Christie: 

(193) WSO Setup In The F-15E - YouTube

In summary he shows really cool setup for controls in WSO seat - that you can achieve with most hotas setups. 

This is how it works in action: 

F-15E - Fun In The Back Seat

 

I highly recommend these videos, and to try out his setup - it worked well for me. Now, I actually prefer to prosecute ground targets from the back seat in pretty much all of the situations, apart from the pop-up attacks with LGBs (I am working on it though...)

If you haven't seen - check out Notso on YT - he put a lot of interesting tutorials about 15E on his channel.

Enjoy!

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Raven (Elysian Angel):

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jayhawk1971:

Also tinted visor.

Already mentioned earlier.

 

Tinted visor.

[SloppyDog]

On 1/25/2025 at 4:59 AM, Sunbather said:

I am thinking about buying the F-15E. The Razbam vs ED situation does NOT play into my decision, I have already discussed this with myself so please don't make any arguments here based on 'the situation'.

So basically, I am asking myself: Why would I need the F-15E when I already own the F-16 and F/A-18C? Or should I rather go for another fighter jet that differs more from those two than the F-15E?

Yes, the F-15E excels in strike missions which are among my favourite missions by the way. But the Viper and the Hornet can do the same, right?  Here are some things that I found out myself:

+ the F-15E has much more fuel, hence can travel a much longer distance before the need of AAR

+ the F-15E can carry much more ordinance than the other jets

+ the F-15E has an extraordinary A2G-radar

+ the F-15E can release multiple JDAMS at the same time on different targets

+´the F-15E has a sexy and useful NAVFLIR

 

And here some disadvantages that put the F-15E behind the other two jets in my opinion (again, please no disussion about the situation, I know that some of the missing features might still come or will never come, let's talk about the current state of the F-15E)

- no helmet-mounted cueing system --> no TOO capability or at least it is much harder to mark the TOO

- no Link-16 --> worse situational awareness

- very little variation in armaments, basically the same the F-16C has minus the HARMS (which is a big deal for me. I usually want at least one new 'weapon' when I buy a new DLC)

 

What do I make of this? Did I forget something? How do you feel about the  base question? Do the F-16 and F/A-18 make the F-15E superfluous in your virtual hangar?

 

Maybe one last bit of information from me: currently I am mostly playing singleplayer DCS Retribution and I would like to change things up a bit, in that I can fly a different aircraft in each new mission. I am also playing a lot of Israeli scenarios and as I understand it, the F-15E even has a IAF model. Hence, the F-15E seems like an ideal aircraft.

Buy it, if you love it!

Meaning:

1. Do you know what is it for? 
2. Do you know it was purpose built to do one thing and one thing only, but very well done?
3. Do you know it is a indirect descendant of the F-111? Albeit slower, but much more A-A capable?

Anyways, if you know for what it was built to, what is its mission and what you can do with it, you will be a very happy camper.

The big mistake people made when buying it was to expect it to be a great dogfighter. A lot of people were clamoring for the removal of the CFTs in order to make it more maneuverable.   But, IMO, they were wrong, and didn't understand what the Mudhen is and what it was made to do.

I know it has been used to patrol No-Fly Zones in Iraq and in the Baltic States to keep the Russian at bay, using solely Air-to-Air loadouts. It is a great BVR fighter, the most powerful radar in the game.

 But what is great about it is to fly low and fast, this is where it likes to be. You can go 500 nm at 500 knots at 500 feet from the ground, and only then start worrying about your fuel state. That loaded with 4 GBU-12's and 2 GBU-10s and two bags. It is an amazing bird.

Regarding the lack of modern gizmos like the JHCMS and Link-16...well, for me it doesn't make any difference, since I play 99% of time in A-G mode.

But a having newer, more modern TPOD wouldn't hurt.

The state it is now in game is playable, it is a lot of fun. Has some unattended bugs, but nothing that makes the module completely broken.

In the state that it is now, you can simulate Late Cold War scenarios, like the Gulf War. Or the Global War on Terror, with no contested airspace.

Anyway, if you love it, buy it. If you know that it is mostly a Strike platform, that can perform other roles, but was purpose built to deliver bombs deep inside enemy territory following a Cold War doctrine, you won't be disappointed.

Just don't expect it to out turn an F-16.  

 

 

 

 

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Scintillation? Not exclusively: https://youtu.be/M_1g1N4ilQM?si=lSD-MsHftCqy1-wN

(purposefully not embedded or I'll get naughty points again )

Oooooff! TGIF! So many guilty pleasures at once!  

Thanks J!  

[MAXsenna]

@SloppyDog Great write up! He's already saved!  

8 hours ago, Sunbather said:

I pulled the trigger shortly after having read all your messages and it was very much worth it.

Cheers!  

[Ignition]

The DCS F-15E is the only modern strike fighter with multiplayer multicrew.

[Waffle 1-1]

9 hours ago, Sunbather said:

I am assuming that you are American

I’ll skip the rest - you are entitled to your opinion and how you evaluate the value of a euro or dollar as much as I am.

But me, American? Not quite. In fact we are neighbors. Greetings from Belgium!

[Sunbather]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Waffle 1-1:

I’ll skip the rest - you are entitled to your opinion and how you evaluate the value of a euro or dollar as much as I am.

But me, American? Not quite. In fact we are neighbors. Greetings from Belgium!

Damn, so it's that expensive to go to the movies in Belgium?

Hold on. Waffle? Belgian Waffles? It all makes sense now!

Please excuse me again for my rant. I was homing in on that one argument of yours which you made in all innocence.