[MODULE]Su-25A Frogfoot as a clickable module with updated geometery

[The Gryphon]

1 hour ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

I already have thsi thread. Please go here and vote =o).

 

 

Thank you!  I have voted (Yes of course!!!)

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

poll edited

threads merged

Thank you!    

[flyingcyrus]

9 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

poll edited

threads merged

Hey BigNewy, what did you vote for ?

[bies]

Yes because it would fit all the late Cold War Soviet roster, like MiG-29 9.12, Mi-24P, MiG-21bis, Mi-8, Su-17M, MiG-23MLA etc.

Yes because this original Su-25 is just exceptionally fun to play, like a bigger jetipowered IL-2, all werapons, guided and unguided are within visual range, it's all about skill, flying, aiming, dodging, navigation. Everything about original Su-25 is engaging and fun.

Edited February 7 by bies

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, flyingcyrus said:

Hey BigNewy, what did you vote for ?

would love to see the Su-25A as full fidelity one day, its such an iconic ground attack aircraft.  

[SOLIDKREATE]

:bump for vodka:

 

And I wonder if they do, would they do a joint Su-25A and T as FFM?

Edited February 7 by SOLIDKREATE

[Supernova-III]

50 minutes ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

joint Su-25A and T

wha?

I hope some day people stop mentioning these two together. But not today...

[bies]

Su-25T would require different flight model and flight performance then Su-25, different engines, different weapon system, different cockpit/HUD/TV etc. Basically a work of a full new module.

Not worth as there were just 8 prototypes, later cancelled and rebuilt.

Edited February 8 by bies

[TotenDead]

But Su-25 is already in the game... 

 

From what the late CW  scenarios  would benefit is the MiG-27M/K. The latter would even be useful in modern scenarios Thanks to its combination of speed And armament

 

But another Su-25? Meh

[Supernova-III]

38 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

From what the late CW  scenarios  would benefit is the MiG-27M/K.

Both Su-25 and Su-27 deserve to be implemented as FFM if we are talking about CW or even modern scenarios

40 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

The latter would even be useful in modern scenarios Thanks to its combination of speed And armament

What scenarios? Deep strike? It's not that simple, so let's compare. This is not Su-25 primary task, but still there's tradeoff between survivability and a2a capabilities. Su-25 can fly 750-800 km/h at 40m AGL and it's actually being used in this way. Su-27 or every other multi-role jet won't fly faster than that anyway, because it's too dangerous. But no multi-role jet is able to survive enemy fire, while Su-25 has a very good chance of withstanding AAA fire and many types of guided missiles

49 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

But another Su-25? Meh

I can say similar thing about Su-27 or MiG-29

[TotenDead]

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Both Su-25 and Su-27 deserve to be implemented as FFM if we are talking about CW or even modern scenarios

 

Maybe. Once there're no other redfor aircraft to make

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

What scenarios? Deep strike? It's not that simple, so let's compare. This is not Su-25 primary task, but still there's tradeoff between survivability and a2a capabilities.

What tradeoff, Su-25 has no a2a capability unless you count 2 R-60s as such? When it comes to scenarios - check any populated on-line server

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Su-25 can fly 750-800 km/h at 40m AGL and it's actually being used in this way.

If you ever flew the Su-25 then ypu know HOW it flies at such speeds

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Su-27 or every other multi-role jet won't fly faster than that anyway, because it's too dangerous.
 

But such fast planes can fly way higher and way faster when needed.

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

But no multi-role jet is able to survive enemy fire, while Su-25 has a very good chance of withstanding AAA fire and many types of guided missiles

 

Yeah, well, usually the idea is not to get hit in the first place. As you know, such obsolete rust buckets as A-10 and Su-25 are only suitable to bomb some terrorists from high altitute or loft rockets from 5-8 km from the front line

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

I can say similar thing about Su-27 or MiG-29

Of course. That's why they'd better be done after there's nothing else to make

[draconus]

37 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

That's why they'd better be done after there's nothing else to make

MiG-29 is already coming and Su-27 is first on the list of popularity for the next FF Redfor jet while MiG-27... I'm not sure it'll hit TOP 10.

[Supernova-III]

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

If you ever flew the Su-25 then ypu know HOW it flies at such speeds

Yes, I flew Su-25 in DCS. Moreover, this is my main airplane. I spend a lot of time flying it. Su-25 excels at such speeds, when being handled properly.

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

What tradeoff, Su-25 has no a2a capability unless you count 2 R-60s as such?

this is exactly what I mean. Weak a2a capability in favor of best in class survivability. Still, it can fire those R-60s. You know what that means?

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

When it comes to scenarios - check any populated on-line server

I know. It just means that no one can make a proper mission for Su-25. Really, I have never seen a single good online mission for the Su-25. They are all bad. The mission's creators should stop putting Su-25 into missions for the frontline/fighter bombers.

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

But such fast planes can fly way higher and way faster when needed.

This is how multi-role plane should perform. Su-25 is strictly specialized and waay better in its job than Su-27/MiG-29.

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

A-10 and Su-25

Let's not mix A-10 and Su-25. They belong to the same class due to **some** of their characteristics.

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

are only suitable to bomb some terrorists from high altitute or loft rockets from 5-8 km from the front line

looks like someone needs to get better knowledge about Su-25 employment.

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

As you know, such obsolete rust buckets as A-10 and Su-25

Well, I'm not going to convince you. It doesn't look like you are open to change your mind.

[TotenDead]

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Yes, I flew Su-25 in DCS. Moreover, this is my main airplane. I spend a lot of time flying it. Su-25 excels at such speeds, when being handled properly.

Then you should know how it shakes and wants to dive once it reaches such speeds

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

this is exactly what I mean. Weak a2a capability in favor of best in class survivability. Still, it can fire those R-60s. You know what that means?

No, not really

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

I know. It just means that no one can make a proper mission for Su-25. Really, I have never seen a single good online mission for the Su-25. They are all bad. The mission's creators should stop putting Su-25 into missions for the frontline/fighter bombers.

 

 

And what kind of missions do you want? It can do some peasant hunt - sure. But if its target is defended with anything like MANPADS or AAA you'd better turn around and leave
There's, actually, a good campaign in DCS, it's about nato invasion of the USSR. But you'll probably need exterior views switched ON to complete it because, well, SAMs and AAA and the plane isn't good against those

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

 

This is how multi-role plane should perform. Su-25 is strictly specialized and waay better in its job than Su-27/MiG-29.

 

Aight, what can it do what others don't? Why such attackers arent produced anywhere anymore 

 

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Let's not mix A-10 and Su-25. They belong to the same class due to **some** of their characteristics.

Why not? 

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

looks like someone needs to get better knowledge about Su-25 employment.

I'd gladly read a few words from you about any other of its employment but peasant hunt and rocket lobbing. 

1 час назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Well, I'm not going to convince you. It doesn't look like you are open to change your mind.

Yeah, well, procurement of such jets speaks for itself

[TotenDead]

3 часа назад, draconus сказал:

MiG-29 is already coming and Su-27 is first on the list of popularity for the next FF Redfor jet while MiG-27... I'm not sure it'll hit TOP 10.

Let me put it this way. Why would I buy a FF MiG-15 if I have the FC version? Their flight characteristics are equal, their armament is the same. Just to make clicky-wanky clicks inside the cockpit? I get 90% of gameplay for 25% of the price. And 100% of it if we ignore the piano part

The MiG-27, on the other hand, adds new capabilities to the redfor. Neither Su-25, nor Mig and Su-27 can do that

[Supernova-III]

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Then you should know how it shakes

This should be fixed. It's rather a bug. And actually the jet doesn't shake, but the camera does. This is why it's so annoying. + the airspeed on which the aircraft starts "shaking" depends on the armament load, fuel load, whether you have external tanks or not, also depends on the altitude. The mission should be adequate + the flight should be planned properly -- it helps to avoid this problem. But anyway this must be fixed. If the real aircraft actually shakes at such speeds (most likely not), then it should be implemented so that the aircraft itself shakes, not the camera

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

and wants to dive once it reaches such speeds

This is normal for speed-stable aircraft. You have a trimmer.

 

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

But if its target is defended with anything like MANPADS or AAA you'd better turn around and leave

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Aight, what can it do what others don't?

I just put these two together so that someone who handles Su-25 right could laugh. These two together made my day.

 

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Why such attackers arent produced anywhere anymore 

Su-27 is not produced today as well

 

1 hour ago, TotenDead said:

And 100% of it if we ignore the piano part

Just in case, if you didn't know... There is a game called WT, it could give you that 100% of gameplay you are talking about. Condensed 100% fun.  There's even entire game mode where you have

2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

exterior views switched ON

Good luck!

[AeriaGloria]

Jeez get a room you two Su-25 is better multi role then Su-27/33 because it can survive AAA and missile hits sometimes and carry two missiles with less range then a R-3S and a third of the warhead? The MiG-15 FC is just as good gameplay as the full fidelity despite not being able to align your compass, or shoot one or both guns on the fly without having to switch between one or the other or both off/on first with key binds that aren’t even real buttons? If systems interaction means nothing to you in terms of gameplay and engaging with its history and real life use, then that’s on you no need to assume about everyone else that clicky adds nothing and two R-60s and some armor plating make a plane multi role You two are a pair! You may hate each other but might as well be an old married couple

[TotenDead]

4 часа назад, Supernova-III сказал:

This should be fixed. It's rather a bug. And actually the jet doesn't shake, but the camera does. This is why it's so annoying. + the airspeed on which the aircraft starts "shaking" depends on the armament load, fuel load, whether you have external tanks or not, also depends on the altitude. The mission should be adequate + the flight should be planned properly -- it helps to avoid this problem. But anyway this must be fixed. If the real aircraft actually shakes at such speeds (most likely not), then it should be implemented so that the aircraft itself shakes, not the camera

 

That's called flutter, lol. And it depends on loadout

 

4 часа назад, Supernova-III сказал:

I just put these two together so that someone who handles Su-25 right could laugh. These two together made my day.

 

So, you have no idea. Right.

 

4 часа назад, Supernova-III сказал:

Su-27 is not produced today as well

Yes, because it was replaced by more modern aircraft like Su-30/35/57. What's with the attackers like the Su-25?

4 часа назад, Supernova-III сказал:

 

Just in case, if you didn't know... There is a game called WT, it could give you that 100% of gameplay you are talking about. Condensed 100% fun.  There's even entire game mode where you have

Ah, don't you War Thunder me. Check on-line servers, most of those are even more arcadey then war thunder sim

 

8 минут назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

The MiG-15 FC is just as good gameplay as the full fidelity despite not being able to align your compass,

Wow, the one essential thing. Can't argue, there was 0 times when I needed to do anything with it to get a bearing. Anyway, you know, you could do that in the old IL-2 so, eh, no clickery is needed here. Only devs will 

8 минут назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

or shoot one or both guns on the fly without having to switch between one or the other or both off/on first with key binds that aren’t even real buttons?

You can shoot only 23, only 37, or both. The implementation of switching is a question to the devs for sure. But that's not a problem at all

8 минут назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

If systems interaction means nothing to you in terms of gameplay

I'm about driving the car, not starting the car. I don't find inserting the key and turning it amusing

8 минут назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

and engaging with its history and real life use

FC level is more than enough for that

8 минут назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

no need to assume about everyone else that clicky adds nothing  

Of course. It's okay to love inserting the key, nothing wrong with that. It's just that if one does love that and another doesn't care, in the end both cars drive the same.
That's why I'm saying that we have the Su-25 and don't need to make it clickable before we get some redfor jets that we don't have in the game

[SOLIDKREATE]

19 hours ago, bies said:

Su-25T would have different flight model and flight performance, different engines, different weapon system, different cockpit/HUD/TV etc.

Not worth as there were just 8 prototypes, later cancelled and rebuilt.

 

Yeah I just read up on this bird. The other variants after the 'T' wouldn't really serve us very well since they all came in the late 90's and 2000's. I mena they're already making a whole new model (3D Geometry), see no reason why it cannot continue. I for one am waiting with baited breath.

[Supernova-III]

8 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

You may hate each other but might as well be an old married couple

yeah, we could happily play war thunder together. He would fly Su-27, I would drive Tunguska

[Weta43]

They made the Su-24, Su-25 & Su-27 as 3 different airframes not one & deployed them all discretely to the Soviet armed forces because they're supposed to fulfill different roles - You're arguing about whether socks, gloves or scarves are better at keeping your *rse warm.

 

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FQ4gKxfBv_7rxuN_E4wZNqj1dBiIdgGmA-cSu_z6sUvA.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3f9901abb0be528d7eaa8ddd45234f9b9bdc80db

Edited February 8 by Weta43

[draconus]

13 hours ago, TotenDead said:

It's okay to love inserting the key, nothing wrong with that. It's just that if one does love that and another doesn't care, in the end both cars drive the same.

Yeah, we get it - you don't value full fidelity in DCS. You just care about FM and combat - that's ok, that's why the FC exists, it can be fun and that's why we have option to choose. But many simmers don't find FC enough fun and very much appreciate every detail that come with full fidelity, be it cold start procedure, realistic nav systems, radios, sensors, weapon controls, emergency handling and finally shut down. We don't have to convince each other which is better or if there's any big difference.

[DogsInTrousers]

I would love to see the SU-25A as a FF module. It would be a perfect companion to the incoming Mig-29.

While I understand the challenges faced by ED in developing "redfor" modules, redfor is severely lacking in FF modules to bring it to the later end of the Cold War era. I would have thought there would be enough export models hanging around in ex comm-bloc museums.

Sure the heli's are nice (mind, the Mi-8 is screaming for a facelift) but we really need something else. I'm very excited for the Mig-29, but an SU-25 would open the door for awesome campaign building in Afghanistan! With the Mig-23 probably on ice for the immediate future, there's not much to go with and the "western" hardware just keeps rolling into DCS. 

The only dilemma I see with a FF SU-25 is how much should ED charge for it? If they offer the same visual fidelity in the incoming free SU-25 upgrade, what's the value that should be placed on full FF integration and PFM? $30? $40? $50?

All I hope is with the incoming SU-25 upgrade, they give an option to remove the stupid HUD camera canister! Please ED!!

 

[Mainstay]

Would love it! but if there would be an option i would prefer the Su25SM over the Su25A. Just wishful thinking

[Supernova-III]

19 hours ago, draconus said:

Yeah, we get it - you don't value full fidelity in DCS. You just care about FM and combat - that's ok, that's why the FC exists, it can be fun and that's why we have option to choose. But many simmers don't find FC enough fun and very much appreciate every detail that come with full fidelity, be it cold start procedure, realistic nav systems, radios, sensors, weapon controls, emergency handling and finally shut down. We don't have to convince each other which is better or if there's any big difference.

why is it marked as solution?

[draconus]

7 hours ago, Supernova-III said:

why is it marked as solution?

Only thread author or admin has the option to mark the post as solution.

9 hours ago, DogsInTrousers said:

All I hope is with the incoming SU-25 upgrade, they give an option to remove the stupid HUD camera canister! Please ED!!

You're asking for full fidelity yet you want to remove the camera that must be installed and running for every combat flight. Hit Lalt+F1 if the cockpit gets in the way.