cannot reproduce Maverick boresight not good enough for auto handoff?

[PawlaczGMD]

Can someone give me tips on how to boresight the mavs from a cold start?

I do it in the air by locking some building on the way in the tgp, aligning the maverick, locking, and pressing BSGT. The target was a few nm away and the BSGT button lights up. However, when I then try to engage real targets around 8-10 nm away, the Mav points at least 50-100m away from the target vehicle. Auto handoff will never work like this.

Am I missing something, or is it just what it is? This makes engaging clusters of targets very frustrating. I spend a few nm of travel just fiddling with the maverick manually.

 

[speed-of-heat]

Master Arm  to SIM, and Ground Jettison to ON?

 

[PawlaczGMD]

1 minute ago, speed-of-heat said:

Master Arm  to SIM, and Ground Jettison to ON?

 

Master arm to ARM, GJ off. Do I need GJ on? Maybe that's the missing step. But I am doing the boresighting in the air, not on the ground.

[VampireNZ]

Pretty pointless trying to rely on Auto Handoff in the Viper the way it is currently - the best you can hope for is it gets the Mav seeker close then you still have to manually slew the mav seeker to the tgt - using the overly-sensitive maverick slew controls 

[NytHawk]

1 hour ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Master arm to ARM, GJ off. Do I need GJ on? Maybe that's the missing step. But I am doing the boresighting in the air, not on the ground.

If you are in the air, ground jettison does not need to be enabled. However you do need ground jettison on in order to boresight mavs on the ground.

It isn't uncommon for mavs to not get a lock purely via TGP handoff (especially CCD mavs), so you will often need to go into the WPN page and make a manual correction in order to achieve a lock.

Also what sort of range you boresighting in the air at? Ideally you want a slant range of ~5nm on an individual target (not a tight cluster of targets).

Edited February 5 by NytHawk

[Gilligan]

12 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Can someone give me tips on how to boresight the mavs from a cold start?

I do it in the air by locking some building on the way in the tgp, aligning the maverick, locking, and pressing BSGT. The target was a few nm away and the BSGT button lights up. However, when I then try to engage real targets around 8-10 nm away, the Mav points at least 50-100m away from the target vehicle. Auto handoff will never work like this.

Am I missing something, or is it just what it is? This makes engaging clusters of targets very frustrating. I spend a few nm of travel just fiddling with the maverick manually.

 

Yes.

 

Start up the Jet like Normal. Turn the AMG 65's ON as soon as the avionics power up so they can start their power up procedure.

Set Ground Jettison to ON. Set Master arm to SIM (On works too but is a little sketchy lol). 

The most difficult part is choosing an appropriate object to align on, ideally you want to choose something a few (5-8) NM away from you to use to align the TGP and MAV Seekers, but that's not always possible. It's primarily for this reason I prefer air alignments, but sometimes it works out. 

Once you've picked something to align them on, align the same way you would in the air:

In AG mode, set one MFD to the TGP, and the other to the WPN screen with the MAV selected in the SMS page.

Set the TGP MFD as SOI and slew the TGP cross hairs on the intended object & press TMS up short

The WPN MFD will become the SOI, slew the crosshairs on the intended object, press TMS up short, if lock is achieved press the OSB for BSGT.

If you have MAVs on both wing stations 3 and 7, press the OSB button to switch to the other side and repeat the process.

 

There is always going to be some parallax to deal with when using Mavs unless you're consistently locking targets at the same distance you bore sighted them, which is going to mean some displacement from where the TGP is looking and where the MAV seeker is looking. I never use the auto-hand-off feature, generally preferring to lock the mavs up manually. The Mav's are pretty fiddly. Just the way it is.

[PawlaczGMD]

Thanks for the tips. Looks like I was doing everything correctly, except I should try to boresight a target that's closer to the intended real target range, so maybe 8nm. I was using closer objects for practical reasons - it's hard to resolve a specific building or object that's not IR hot at longer ranges. 

Doing it on the ground would be best, but in this mission there are no good targets to lock up near the airbase.

Edited February 5 by PawlaczGMD

[NytHawk]

1 hour ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Thanks for the tips. Looks like I was doing everything correctly, except I should try to boresight a target that's closer to the intended real target range, so maybe 8nm. I was using closer objects for practical reasons - it's hard to resolve a specific building or object that's not IR hot at longer ranges. 

Doing it on the ground would be best, but in this mission there are no good targets to lock up near the airbase.

Usually you can lock up the static assets near air bases (like the trucks), this is usually what I do.

[SpecterDC13]

20 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Can someone give me tips on how to boresight the mavs from a cold start?

I do it in the air by locking some building on the way in the tgp, aligning the maverick, locking, and pressing BSGT. The target was a few nm away and the BSGT button lights up. However, when I then try to engage real targets around 8-10 nm away, the Mav points at least 50-100m away from the target vehicle. Auto handoff will never work like this.

Am I missing something, or is it just what it is? This makes engaging clusters of targets very frustrating. I spend a few nm of travel just fiddling with the maverick manually.

 

Go to the appropriate timestamp. This is the best tutorial you are going to find about the AGM-65.

 

https://youtu.be/aZFphYmt3qo?si=HTqR8Y1M9Mq5YZQk

[ZMEY-HS-]

"cannot repoduce" eh? That missalignment literally happens in any flight. Happens since the day boresighting was broken last year. Even if you start in the air with pre-alligned missiles.

I made a bunch of screenshots at the moment when I press TMS UP on TGP at around 7 nm range. Note the TGP and missile seeker missalignment. Only #3 would lock in AUTO mode. Probably #1 too.

. 

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mav.trk

[PawlaczGMD]

3 hours ago, SpecterDC13 said:

Go to the appropriate timestamp. This is the best tutorial you are going to find about the AGM-65.

 

https://youtu.be/aZFphYmt3qo?si=HTqR8Y1M9Mq5YZQk

Thanks, my method was generally correct, but that's a lot of good info. I managed to do my mission by boresighting in the air at around 8 nm, which didn't give me a perfect handoff, but was good enough.

I'm used to the Hornet where it just works. Is it just that the Hornet doesn't have this effect modelled? Or is it just smart enough to do it by itself?

Edited February 6 by PawlaczGMD

[NytHawk]

2 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I'm used to the Hornet where it just works. Is it just that the Hornet doesn't have this effect modelled? Or is it just smart enough to do it by itself?

The requirement to boresight mavs simply hasn't been implemented yet on the hornet.

[skywalker22]

22 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Pretty pointless trying to rely on Auto Handoff in the Viper the way it is currently - the best you can hope for is it gets the Mav seeker close then you still have to manually slew the mav seeker to the tgt - using the overly-sensitive maverick slew controls 

Seems to be fine, at least what they say.

[Nedum]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:28 AM, skywalker22 said:

Seems to be fine, at least what they say.

But it isn't!

Can one explain, how ED is simulating >>not<< to align with the first viewed right target after the hand off?

The interesting part is, at first the Mav tries to align and picks the right target after the auto hand off, but the Mav cross never closes. And as soon I try to get a lock with TMS up (Mav cross should be closed) the Mav tries to lock another target!

 

• Auto hand off -> Mav picks the right target, but one didn't get a good lock (no closed cross)
• TMS up short ->   Mav switches to another target, even so hast the right target in the center of the open cross, and one gets instant a closed cross.
• TMS down and TMS Up again -> Mav switches back to the right target, but the Mav cross stays open.
• Repeating procedure till 4-3 miles., and then the "Magic" happens: right target, closed cross.

 

I am really interested in to know how is that the right way to "simulate" how a Mav would behave with an auto hand off?

And what I can't understand, why is the Mav switching to another target with TMS up even so, it is looking at the right target after an auto hand off, but only hasn't locked it. And if it auto-switches to the wrong target with TMS up, why do I get instant a closed Mav cross now?

 

So, no, I don't believe, even If I am drunk, that the current behavior of the Mavs is any near a RL behavior! Not a tiny little bit!

 

 

[falconbr]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:09 AM, ZMEY-HS- said:

"cannot repoduce" eh? That missalignment literally happens in any flight. Happens since the day boresighting was broken last year. Even if you start in the air with pre-alligned missiles.

I made a bunch of screenshots at the moment when I press TMS UP on TGP at around 7 nm range. Note the TGP and missile seeker missalignment. Only #3 would lock in AUTO mode. Probably #1 too.

. 

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mav.trk 3.08 MB · 5 downloads

As per RL F-16 manual, only the AGM-65 D/G has auto handoff function. As far your video shows, the AGM-65H was used.

Best regards,

falconbr

[ZMEY-HS-]

14 hours ago, falconbr said:

As per RL F-16 manual, only the AGM-65 D/G has auto handoff function. As far your video shows, the AGM-65H was used.

Best regards,

falconbr

With D missalignment will be exacly the same. H was choosen just to demonstrate boresghting issue, not the handoff functionality, since H has better clear picture compare to blurry D.

Edited February 9 by ZMEY-HS-