Isenhill Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Fine, if it's max speed is only Mach 2, then why the high sweep angles and variable intakes? Not only that, the F-22 max speed is Mach 2, so how is the T-50's max speed less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Same reason that every Mach 2 aircraft has'em? Fine, if it's max speed is only Mach 2, then why the high sweep angles and variable intakes? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isenhill Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Same reason that every Mach 2 aircraft has'em? Aircraft with fixed intakes like F-22 and F-16 are limit to Mach 2. Aircraft with variable intakes can go faster, like the Su-27 at Mach 2.35, F-15 at Mach 2.5, and so on. The T-50's variable intakes and high sweep angles doesn't make sense for Mach 2 limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Some misinformation here. The F-16 has a pitot intake, the F-22 has DSI. You can reach Mach 2 with either if your engine inherently produces enough thrust at high speed, it's just that the intakes with DSI or ramps will be operating more efficiently at Mach 2. Variable ramp intakes offer even better efficiency at high speed but also bring increased weight and RCS. It's all about overall design goals. The general consensus among modern fighter designers seems to be that getting up to Mach 2 quickly is good but that there's not a fantastically good incentive to go much past that and a lot of incentives not to (extra heating requires different materials, less composites, higher weight, higher RCS etc.). So I expect a lot of fighters will fall into the Mach 2-2.4 range, with multi-role aircraft coming in slightly short of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Given that the T-50 has only started external weapons carriage tests earlier this year, I find the claim regarding the dummy weapons part to be rather suspect. Also, considering that the Indian Air Force thinks that the current T-50 with Izd.117 engines are underpowered, I have a difficult time believing the speed claims. Remember, the new Izd.30 engines won't be out until almost 2020. Ahem. Su-47 has carried dummy weapons years before T-50 even flew, do you have x-ray vision to say that they haven't been flying with internal weapons for a long long time? Indian Air Force official says a lot of dumb sh!t. They are better to be ignored. It is amazing how people are just unable to use simple logic. 1: T-50 has more thrust 2: T-50 has less drag 3: Top speed of T-50 is NOT limited by its engine considering for example Su-35S has less thrust, more weight and more drag and yet greater top speed. Fine, if it's max speed is only Mach 2, then why the high sweep angles and variable intakes? Not only that, the F-22 max speed is Mach 2, so how is the T-50's max speed less? Eh, F-22 is not mach 2. It is much faster. ...the F-22 has DSI. What? F-35 does have it, F-22 as far as i know, doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 What? F-35 does have it, F-22 as far as i know, doesn't. Partly an educated guess. It can't be operating a pitot and ramps and stealth don't gel. But then some sources say 2 ramps in a diamond shape but with no substantiating reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Aircraft with fixed intakes like F-22 and F-16 are limit to Mach 2. Yeah sure. Based on what? I mean, what makes it mach 2? Why not mach 1.8? 2.2? Aircraft with variable intakes can go faster, like the Su-27 at Mach 2.35, F-15 at Mach 2.5, and so on. The T-50's variable intakes and high sweep angles doesn't make sense for Mach 2 limit. High sweep angles are present in any supersonic aircraft. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There isn't actually any hard and fast limit for different types of intake, it's just that total pressure losses are generally greater for pitot than fixed ramp and greater for fixed ramps than variable ramps. Ultimately engine performance will play a large part too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBuddha Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I've been hearing about this 2016 operational date, but it seems like 2016 is actually the date that the Russian Air Force gets the first production aircraft. So what is it? Indian Air Force official says a lot of dumb sh!t. They are better to be ignored. It is amazing how people are just unable to use simple logic. Okay, I'll take note of that. Still, I'm somewhat doubtful of the radioscanner claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 2016 (31.12.16 to be precise is deadline per MoD doc) is the year when T-50 will achieve IOC and first serial ones will be handed over. I am also skeptical about the radioscanner quote, as much as i would like for it to be true. But as said, there is no real, reliable source for that quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isenhill Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Eh, F-22 is not mach 2. It is much faster. Then what is F-22 speed then? LM says mach 2. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/f22/f-22-specifications.html http://youtu.be/bCgLdFVppd4?t=10m28s The T-50 is purposely designed to outperform the F-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Falcon Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Then what is F-22 speed then? LM says mach 2. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/f22/f-22-specifications.html http://youtu.be/bCgLdFVppd4?t=10m28s The T-50 is purposely designed to outperform the F-22. Mach 2 class, so could also be Mach 2.99 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieGhost789 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Well, the fact is, we don't actually know how fast the F-22 is. We can guess all we like, but it's not going to be public knowledge for quite some time. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Then what is F-22 speed then? LM says mach 2. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/f22/f-22-specifications.html I suggest you read carefully one more time. After that do some googling. I suggest Paul Metz + interview for starters. Well, the fact is, we don't actually know how fast the F-22 is. We can guess all we like, but it's not going to be public knowledge for quite some time. Of course we won't know the exact top speed. We don't need to either. There is plenty of pointers of what *range* the top speed is in, for example from the famous Paul Metz interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 'Mach 2 Class' does not equal Mach 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 LM says 'Mach 2 Class', not 'Mach 2.0'. F-15C's 'can do' M2.5, and on intercepts with two tanks they'll get 1.6 or so. An F-15C 150nm flat dash intercept is 16+ minutes. An F-22 does it in 10 minutes and has fuel to spare when it gets there. You do the math and figure it out. Then what is F-22 speed then? LM says mach 2. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/f22/f-22-specifications.html http://youtu.be/bCgLdFVppd4?t=10m28s The T-50 is purposely designed to outperform the F-22. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Come on guys, you are helping him too much. :D It would be oh-so-entertaining to see him figure it out for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topol-m Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Btw why is it such a big deal if one goes M2.0 and the other goes M2.1 or vice versa? This ain't Formula 1 race. Unless there's a big speed difference it shouldn't matter that much. If high speed was such a huge factor for an air superiority aircraft, then we would have noticed 5th+ gen fighters resembling A-12 and Mig-31. Yet none of the current fighters and the near future concepts presented so far are designed to go that fast. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 LM says 'Mach 2 Class', not 'Mach 2.0'. F-15C's 'can do' M2.5, and on intercepts with two tanks they'll get 1.6 or so. An F-15C 150nm flat dash intercept is 16+ minutes. An F-22 does it in 10 minutes and has fuel to spare when it gets there. You do the math and figure it out. Paraphrasing last month's Air International. The Eurofighter and the F-22 are the only fighters than can sustain 6+g at over 30,000ft and Mach 1.6. Clearly you need a lot of surplus thrust for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Btw why is it such a big deal if one goes M2.0 and the other goes M2.1 or vice versa? This ain't Formula 1 race. Unless there's a big speed difference it shouldn't matter that much. If high speed was such a huge factor for an air superiority aircraft, then we would have noticed 5th+ gen fighters resembling A-12 and Mig-31. Yet none of the current fighters and the near future concepts presented so far are designed to go that fast. Agreed. And apparently so does VVS. Same thing with some uninformed fanboyz either believing that T-50 will carry more than 6 missiles internally or act like they hold teh thruthz that it *does* carry more than 6. (with no proof to back it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBuddha Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Another important point is this: Flat dash intercept for 150nm is accomplished in 16+ minutes with an F-15C, but about 10.5 minutes with an F-22. The F-22 also arrives with fuel to spare. What's the source? Because it's pretty amazing if true. That's an average of 980 mph or Mach 1.48 from takeoff. Agreed. And apparently so does VVS. Same thing with some uninformed fanboyz either believing that T-50 will carry more than 6 missiles internally or act like they hold teh thruthz that it *does* carry more than 6. (with no proof to back it) To be clear, is it 4 izd.180 and 2 izd.760? Though out of curiosity, what is preventing them from putting 3 izd.180 in each main bay? Edited July 31, 2014 by BronzeBuddha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emu Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXArcticWolfXx Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Totally would buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namenlos Ein Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 12/03/2014 12/28/2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 New prototype? [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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