MAXsenna Posted March 2 Posted March 2 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Mirage , Hornet, and AV-8B. FC (Mig-29 and SU-27) Right. Consider getting the FC F-15C when on sale, and I'm sure you'll master the boom in no time. Then the A-10C will be much easier. 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: I have given up on AAR in Harrier from KC-130 that comes with Harried mod.Without VR (or so I have been told) it is , in fact , impossible, becouse the probe is offset to the side, and is not visible unless view is zoomed out and head turned, Factually incorrect as I did it on my first try, and didn't even turn my head. Don't have VR. 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Haven't trained myself on ither Mirage or Hornet for AAR. Then you should. They're both FBW and easy if you master formation flying. 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Boom method is suppoused to be easier. Holding A-10CII It's easier to get plugged, while it's "harder" to stay connected. The A-10C is especially hard, and much harder than the other boom aircraft. If you have given up on your other modules, you're not ready for the A-10C. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh. There are famous YouTubers that can tank any module. Except they have given up the A-10s. One of the reasons it's hard, is that you can't see the director lights, so you really need to stay in formation with the tanker. 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: OK, but there is no such HOTAS "receptible reset switch" available in Controls. Pinky switch center is suppoused to do that, but does not work. @razo+r answered this. The name escaped me. 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Neither is Aerial Refueling Slip Way Door Lever available. I have mapped open/close to two buttons. Even think you can map an axis. Cheers!
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 (edited) This is the sight picture , in AV-8B , I need to have to see probe and basket. Becouse it is zoomed out and head turned, heavy distortion is imposed. This distortion makes it nearly impossible, to judge distance of probe to basket. The AV-8B pre-contact position is center top of HUD glass between refueling pod and prop naccelle. The pre-contact position in A-10C, with tanker outboard engines center height of canopy frame above HUD frame, obscures the tanker behind canopy bow. I can't see the tanker, and am unable to judge my postion relative to pre-contact position. Most of the time, that sight picture places boom probe behind my canopy. Becouse boom is being lowered and extended, I am unable to use it as fixed point of reference. Lack of peripheral vision and tactile feel, make AAR in DCS so difficult as to be nearly impossible for me. Which is same as impossible. As there are no visual ques, I have no pathway to correct my performance. Edited March 2 by DmitriKozlowsky
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said: Right. Consider getting the FC F-15C when on sale, and I'm sure you'll master the boom in no time. Then the A-10C will be much easier. Factually incorrect as I did it on my first try, and didn't even turn my head. Don't have VR. Then you should. They're both FBW and easy if you master formation flying. It's easier to get plugged, while it's "harder" to stay connected. The A-10C is especially hard, and much harder than the other boom aircraft. If you have given up on your other modules, you're not ready for the A-10C. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh. There are famous YouTubers that can tank any module. Except they have given up the A-10s. One of the reasons it's hard, is that you can't see the director lights, so you really need to stay in formation with the tanker. @razo+r answered this. The name escaped me. I have mapped open/close to two buttons. Even think you can map an axis. Cheers! What? There is no axis for refueling slipway door. No HOTAS function for it either.
Minsky Posted March 2 Posted March 2 5 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: What? There is no axis for refueling slipway door. No HOTAS function for it either. Try 'Air Refuel Control' or something. Dima | My DCS uploads
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Minsky said: Try 'Air Refuel Control' or something. Did that. At first it did not work. Turns out I have long press it. Then it works. Go figure. Edited March 2 by DmitriKozlowsky
AndyJWest Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) AAR is tricky in the Harrier. It isn't impossible though, since plenty of people can do it. I can. And I do it without having the probe in view at all. Instead, I concentrate on getting lined up behind it properly - i.e. with it offset slightly to my left, and at the appropriate height. I then move forward slowly, looking at the tanker, not the basket. I may need to adjust position slightly relative to the tanker as I move forward, based on what I can see in peripheral vision regarding the basket, and then the hose, as the basket moves back out of sight, but a successful hookup is based entirely on moving accurately relative to the tanker. Ultimately, it comes down to be able to fly accurate formation, and then getting an accurate sight picture of where the basket needs to be as you approach. That is all there is to it. Looking at the probe - even glancing at it - while trying to AAR in the Harrier messes me up every time. Edited March 2 by AndyJWest 2
Minsky Posted March 2 Posted March 2 26 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Did that. Not it. If you wanted the action to open and close the refueling door, this is literally it. 1 Dima | My DCS uploads
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 (edited) Here I am getting connected, taking fuel for a second, then tanker disconnects. Then I reconnect, then it disconnects. Then probe is inside the pit. I don't get why I am overtaking tanker by a knot or less, when my throttle is pulled back. Drag should push me back, overcoming momentum. Fine speed control is a curse for me. I am puzzled why for a given speed, air condition, drag, there is no perfect throttle position. Either too fast, or too slow. Once connected, wouldn't the boom basically tow my aircraft. If I am a knot or less faster, the boom should push back locking me in place. Like I said , the fine control, to fidelity needed, is not available to me. Now the 'trick' is to concentrate on placing tanker's outboard engines, just outside front canopy frame, half way down above HUD frame. Keep it there. Not to concentrate on boom. But if that breaks down, if I am just just so slightly too fast , probe ends up inside pit. Like boom operator AI sucks at its job. It can't all be the A-10 pilot. There needs to be a visual aid to align to. A10CII_failedInflightRefuel_take5.trk Edited March 2 by DmitriKozlowsky
rob10 Posted March 2 Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Here I am getting connected, taking fuel for a second, then tanker disconnects. Then I reconnect, then it disconnects. Then probe is inside the pit. I don't get why I am overtaking tanker by a knot or less, when my throttle is pulled back. Drag should push be back, overcoming momentum. Once connected, wouldn't the boom basically tow my aircraft. If I am a knot or less faster, the boom should push back locking me in place. Like I said , the fine control, to fidelity needed, is not available to me. Now the 'trick' is to concentrate on placing tanker's outboard engines, just outside front canopy frame, half way down above HUD frame. Keep it there. Not to concentrate on boom. But if that breaks down, if I am just just so slightly too fast , probe ends up inside pit. Like boom operator AI sucks at its job. It can't all be the A-10 pilot. There needs to be a visual aid to align to. A10CII_failedInflightRefuel_take5.trk 7.07 MB · 0 downloads If you have how many tons of aircraft pushing against that small of boom you really think something isn't going to break/bend even if it's moving slowly against it? Yes it's the A-10 pilots fault. YOU destroyed the tanker by overspeeding into it. As mentioned above the boom as 12 ft of extension in it. If you can't keep your aircraft within that distance of the tanker there is ZERO chance you're ever getting near a tanker, let alone being cleared to take fuel, IRL. I did the math: if you're overtaking at 1 kt, you're moving forward at 1.7 FEET/sec. If the probe was fully extended to 12 ft, it would take you 7 seconds to push it fully back in. At 2 kts it's 3.5 sec. And since it starts at 6 ft you're between 3.5 and 1.25 secs of reaction time (at 1-2 kts). If you can't meet this reaction time, save yourself the aggravation and move on from DCS. As lots of others have said, this is not a DCS problem, it's a problem on your end (either the person behind the stick or hardware fidelity). Stop obsessing about the fact that boom ends up in the cockpit. If it was modelled correctly you'd have been crushed, your aircraft and the tanker both damaged massively and you'd be screaming that you had to keep restarting the mission. The tanker can only move the boom so far up/down/forward/backwards, so NO they CAN'T keep it out of your cockpit. I suspect that IRL before it ever got near going through your cockpit they would be SCREAMING at you, they would be taking radical evasive maneuvers and you'd likely be instantly grounded on RTB. 2
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 1 hour ago, AndyJWest said: AAR is tricky in the Harrier. It isn't impossible though, since plenty of people can do it. I can. And I do it without having the probe in view at all. Instead, I concentrate on getting lined up behind it properly - i.e. with it offset slightly to my left, and at the appropriate height. I then move forward slowly, looking at the tanker, not the basket. I may need to adjust position slightly relative to the tanker as I move forward, based on what I can see in peripheral vision regarding the basket, and then the hose, as the basket moves back out of sight, but a successful hookup is based entirely on moving accurately relative to the tanker. Ultimately, it comes down to be able to fly accurate formation, and then getting an accurate sight picture of where the basket needs to be as you approach. That is all there is to it. Looking at the probe - even glancing at it - while trying to AAR in the Harrier messes me up every time. Right, placing the center top of HUD glass between refueling pod and engine naccell with top of glass lined up along bottom of imaginary line between bottom of pod and bottom of naccelle. With view looking ahead, probe not in view. It gets me 'close', but it has never ever worked. Often it misses, nothing happens, or tKC-130 tells me "breakaway. On replayes,I see the basket going right through the probe. makes no sense.
SharpeXB Posted March 2 Posted March 2 7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Boom has no basket. Not in USAF variant. I’m referring to the basket variant with that comment, obviously. 7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: AI boom operator is supoused extend or retract boom probe and guide it into the receptacle. Up close at tanker, that is simply not happening. You aren’t keeping steady enough in the right position for this to be accomplished. Watch some videos that show you were you need to be. Also in one attempt there you called “ready” too far away and the tanker replied “return pre-contact” not “clear”. You need to be closer to call “ready” 7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Up close at tanker, that is simply not happening. I am unable to fly receptacle into probe, as I loose visibility of it at certain point. This has been said many times but again, don’t look at the probe. You should be literally trying to watch the nozzle connect. If you hold position in the right spot the operator will connect it. But don’t look at the boom, look at the tanker and fly formation off that. 3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: OK, but there is no such HOTAS "receptible reset switch" available in Controls. Pinky switch center is suppoused to do that, but does not work. It’s not the Pinky switch on the throttle it’s the “pinky” or actually the NWS button on the stick that does this. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
rob10 Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Just now, DmitriKozlowsky said: On replayes,I see the basket going right through the probe. makes no sense. If the basket went right through the probe, then once again you're doing things wrong. Typically if the probe is going through the basket you either haven't CLEARED CONTACT or you're attempting to connect to the wrong basket (in DCS the LEFT basket always has to be occupied 1st, so if the tanker has 2 baskets and you go to right with no one cleared on the left it will go through it as if it wasn't there). 3
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, rob10 said: If you have how many tons of aircraft pushing against that small of boom you really think something isn't going to break/bend even if it's moving slowly against it? Yes it's the A-10 pilots fault. YOU destroyed the tanker by overspeeding into it. As mentioned above the boom as 12 ft of extension in it. If you can't keep your aircraft within that distance of the tanker there is ZERO chance you're ever getting near a tanker, let alone being cleared to take fuel, IRL. I did the math: if you're overtaking at 1 kt, you're moving forward at 1.7 FEET/sec. If the probe was fully extended to 12 ft, it would take you 7 seconds to push it fully back in. At 2 kts it's 3.5 sec. And since it starts at 6 ft you're between 3.5 and 1.25 secs of reaction time (at 1-2 kts). If you can't meet this reaction time, save yourself the aggravation and move on from DCS. As lots of others have said, this is not a DCS problem, it's a problem on your end (either the person behind the stick or hardware fidelity). Stop obsessing about the fact that boom ends up in the cockpit. If it was modelled correctly you'd have been crushed, your aircraft and the tanker both damaged massively and you'd be screaming that you had to keep restarting the mission. The tanker can only move the boom so far up/down/forward/backwards, so NO they CAN'T keep it out of your cockpit. I suspect that IRL before it ever got near going through your cockpit they would be SCREAMING at you, they would be taking radical evasive maneuvers and you'd likely be instantly grounded on RTB. I have not destroyed the tanker by overspeeding. If you are seeing that in replay, then replay is lying to you. Which is actually normal for replay. A known fail of DCS. Unles your DCS is identical to mine, its possible for TRK to give you false replay. I wish we could treat TRK as black box, but we can't. Short of making YouTUbe videos out of trackfiles, which is too much hassle, TRK is all we got.
rob10 Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Just now, DmitriKozlowsky said: I have not destroyed the tanker by overspeeding. If you are seeing that in replay, then replay is lying to you. Which is actually normal for replay. A known fail of DCS. Unles your DCS is identical to mine, its possible for TRK to give you false replay. I wish we could treat TRK as black box, but we can't. Short of making YouTUbe videos out of trackfiles, which is too much hassle, TRK is all we got. I know you haven't damaged it because DCS doesn't model that damage. I'm saying if they did model it you'd be here screaming about that fact because you'd have had to restart the mission every time you do overspeed and put the boom through your windshield so you'd have probably only had time to do 1/2 the attempts you have so far. Should ED improve that part of the damage model? Heck yes! Wouldn't bother me in the least. But that's because I don't push the boom into the plane. And in the grand scheme of all things DCS it's a pretty minor one to worry about considering how much time is spent in AAR. 2
SharpeXB Posted March 2 Posted March 2 34 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: I am puzzled why for a given speed, air condition, drag, there is no perfect throttle position. There is no such thing as a “perfect throttle position” You should manipulate the throttle the same way you do when driving a car when maintaining a constant speed. On and off of it continually in small increments. Also there is a lag to the engines, by the time you see yourself going too fast you’re giving too much throttle and vice versa. With enough practice you can learn to predict this. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
SharpeXB Posted March 2 Posted March 2 5 hours ago, MAXsenna said: The A-10s are some of the hardest, if not the hardest module to learn in. I think all the aircraft are easy or difficult in their own way but the skill mostly transfers between them. The A-10 seems easy to me because: - You have a nice symmetrical view of the tanker with an easy sight picture. - It’s a docile plane to fly. - Booms in general are easier to get connected with as the operator does some of the work. On the difficult side the only things I can come up with are: - More controls. ie the need to reset the disconnect. - Manual trimming vs automatic like the Hornet. - The probe is more difficult to stay connected with compared to a basket. - Maybe the fact that you can easily see the boom in front of you is distracting and encourages you to try looking at it. In hindsight I find myself thinking the A-10 is quite easy. It was the first one I learned on so that perspective is quite skewed as it took me a solid two weeks of practice. The other aircraft I learned later on were easy because of my practice on the A-10. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
Northstar98 Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: This is the sight picture , in AV-8B , I need to have to see probe and basket. Nope - you shouldn't be looking at either when connecting - you need to pick a reference in your cockpit and pick a reference on the tanker and make the 2 meet. For the KC-130, when connecting to the left: For lateral positioning I fly to place the heading caret somewhere between touching the left side of the propeller disc of the #1 engine to halfway between the #1 engine's nacelle and the refuelling pod (ideally it would be somewhere between, but the tolerance is such that aligning it either or should result in contact). For vertical positioning try and align the top of the HUD glass with the propeller disc of the #2 engine. This one is a bit difficult because it depends on your exact head positioning and how far forward/aft you are. For this image, I've recentered the view, having your head slightly higher may change the sight picture somewhat, but the basket does give some room for imprecision, but this should give a general gist of the sight picture. See the spoiler below for the same image, minus the annotations. I've also included the default head position and coordinates I have on my end. Spoiler Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\SnapViews.lua [13] = {--default view viewAngle = 65.000000,--FOV viewAngleVertical= 39.430481,--VFOV hAngle = 0.000000, vAngle = -10.000000, x_trans = 0.000000, y_trans = 0.000000, z_trans = 0.000000, rollAngle = 0.000000, cockpit_version = 0, AV-8B_KC-130_AAR1.trk Edited March 2 by Northstar98 2 Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 37 minutes ago, Northstar98 said: Nope - you shouldn't be looking at either when connecting - you need to pick a reference in your cockpit and pick a reference on the tanker and make the 2 meet. For the KC-130, when connecting to the left: For lateral positioning I fly to place the heading caret somewhere between touching the left side of the propeller disc of the #1 engine to halfway between the #1 engine's nacelle and the refuelling pod (ideally it would be somewhere between, but the tolerance is such that aligning it either or should result in contact). For vertical positioning try and align the top of the HUD glass with the propeller disc of the #2 engine. This one is a bit difficult because it depends on your exact head positioning and how far forward/aft you are. For this image, I've recentered the view, having your head slightly higher may change the sight picture somewhat, but the basket does give some room for imprecision, but this should give a general gist of the sight picture. See the spoiler below for the same image, minus the annotations. I've also included the default head position and coordinates I have on my end. Reveal hidden contents Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\SnapViews.lua [13] = {--default view viewAngle = 65.000000,--FOV viewAngleVertical= 39.430481,--VFOV hAngle = 0.000000, vAngle = -10.000000, x_trans = 0.000000, y_trans = 0.000000, z_trans = 0.000000, rollAngle = 0.000000, cockpit_version = 0, AV-8B_KC-130_AAR1.trk 2.22 MB · 0 downloads Thank you. Lets give it a try 1
Yurgon Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) 10 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Boom method is suppoused to be easier. Holding A-10CII steady relative to tanker. Well how steady? How? Director lights , on tanker belly, are not apparent. Ignore the KC-135's director lights in the A-10. They're not for you. They're intended for B-52s and are also used by many other recipients. The A-10 just isn't one of them. Your sight picture is the fuselage plus engines of the tanker, and from your peripheral vision you can check if the boom is too far up/down/left/right and also if it extends or compresses too much. 13 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Whole point of flying boom is system is that the boom operator guides probe into receptacle, [...] The operator should do that, yes. He doesn't do it in DCS. This requires the receiver to be stabilized in the proper refueling position. Which you never are and never have been. A realistic boom operator just wouldn't try to connect while your jet bounces all over the refueling area and beyond it, so it's a bit unclear what difference it would make. Then you'd be telling us it's broken because it never tries to connect during the 2 seconds that you stay somewhere within the right place. 13 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: [...] which then holds the aircraft in place within limits. As far as I know it might actually do that, to a certain degree. It doesn't do so in DCS. However, the boom can't stop receivers from oscillating wildly all over the place. It might be able to dampen out smaller deviations and make it easier for receivers to stay in the right position, but the main load of flying the receiver and keeping it in position is still up to the receiver pilot. You're not there yet and never have been. 6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Here I am getting connected, taking fuel for a second, then tanker disconnects. Because you're not stabilized. It's that simple. 6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: I don't get why I am overtaking tanker by a knot or less, when my throttle is pulled back. Drag should push me back, overcoming momentum. Fine speed control is a curse for me. I am puzzled why for a given speed, air condition, drag, there is no perfect throttle position. Either too fast, or too slow. Well there is a perfect throttle setting for any desired speed and any given aircraft configuration within a set of (constant) environmental conditions. You just need to allow the aircraft time to settle at this exact speed, which can take a minute or so, depending on what speed you're coming from and what speed you're aiming for. And burning fuel will change your aircraft weight, which will in turn require gradual throttle adjustments, but that's more of a concern for longer durations, or when you actually refuel in the air and take on a lot of weight in a short amount of time, which hasn't been your "problem" thus far. Unfortunately, it'll be nigh impossible for a human to set the exact perfect throttle setting at the exact point in space that will make you exactly plug into the boom at the perfect speed. Or in different words: That's just not how matching another aircraft's speed works. It requires constant adjustments of the throttle. Like you've been told before, but you never listen. And you've been told that it takes time for the engines to accelerate (or decelerate) a 40,000 lbs aircraft, so by the time you finally see your jet catching up, it's probably already too late to take out power in order to stabilize at the right point. We could have told you that on page 1 if you hadn't kept insisting that everything else is broken and the only one not making any mistakes was you. However... 6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: Here I am getting connected, taking fuel for a second, then tanker disconnects. Coming back to the track, what do you see? Because what I see is a fairly decent improvement over the earlier tracks. Your oscillations are getting smaller, your anticipation is getting better, and your ability to plug, even if it's just for one second at a time, is a pretty clear indication of you getting the hang of it. It's almost as if practice, practice and more practice paid off within a few days. And if you carefully compare the tracks, you'll see that the only thing that changed is how you fly your own jet. So if you can finally move past the "DCS is broken" that everyone is tired of hearing, we could give you some more specific advice or come back to advice that has already been given and ignored a bunch of times to help you figure out what to focus on right now. All things considered though, you're getting there not so much because everyone here's trying to help you - but despite our combined best effort. So I guess you should keep doing what you're doing because surprisingly enough, it does seem to work. Edited March 2 by Yurgon 1
DmitriKozlowsky Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 Your sight picture helps. My ability to judge laterial distance from basket sucks. I am close but basket is often behind me. Most of the time, the 2 knot closure rate causes "Breakaway" from tanker. The track is me struggling. This task is insanely difficult. AV_8B_partialAAR.trk
SharpeXB Posted March 3 Posted March 3 1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said: This task is insanely difficult. Yes it is but with practice it becomes like riding a bicycle and you can do it without thinking. Keep at it 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
MAXsenna Posted March 3 Posted March 3 17 hours ago, SharpeXB said: I think all the aircraft are easy or difficult in their own way but the skill mostly transfers between them. Absolutely! 17 hours ago, SharpeXB said: In hindsight I find myself thinking the A-10 is quite easy. It was the first one I learned on so that perspective is quite skewed as it took me a solid two weeks of practice. Probably! I found the A-10s daunting because, I learned in other modules first. And I had a hard time getting the correct sight picture, as I used the director lights to help me with that in the other modules. I also had to change my POV as I had a hard time seing the tanker and got very distracted by the boom. 17 hours ago, SharpeXB said: The other aircraft I learned later on were easy because of my practice on the A-10. I can imagine. It didn't take me too long getting the A-10s right, and once mastered, it's a breeze. It did help me with the F-4E though, because I'd learned how to get the sight picture without relaying on the Director Lights. Actually, it was so easy I couldn't believe it. 1
AndyJWest Posted March 3 Posted March 3 Something that probably needs to be said here, amongst a whole lot of posts which - some more politely than others - basically amount to 'you aren't doing it right' and 'get good' is that AAR in DCS is made more difficult than it could be by bugs/poor implementation. Comms with the tanker is confusing, often leading to the situation that DmitriKozlowsky seems to have sometimes found himself in: trying to connect to a tanker that is waiting for a 'ready pre-contact' message, preventing the sim from connecting at all. This is immensely frustrating if you don't understand what is going on, and unnecessary. Added to that, I've seen comments from more than one person with real-world AAR experience that is is actually more difficult in DCS, due to lack of seat-of-your pants clues regarding acceleration etc, along with either no 3-D perception (monitor) or low resolution graphics (VR). Anyone who doesn't struggle with AAR for a long time before getting vaguely competent (which is how I'd rank myself, at least for the aircraft I'm more familiar with) is either very lucky, or in the top few percentile for skills that the rest of us will never have.
SharpeXB Posted March 3 Posted March 3 56 minutes ago, AndyJWest said: Comms with the tanker is confusing, often leading to the situation that DmitriKozlowsky seems to have sometimes found himself in: trying to connect to a tanker that is waiting for a 'ready pre-contact' message, preventing the sim from connecting at all. This is immensely frustrating if you don't understand what is going on, and unnecessary. I don’t see how this is so confusing. It’s a single radio comm message. 1 hour ago, AndyJWest said: AAR in DCS is made more difficult than it could be by bugs/poor implementation. What bugs? So far there haven’t been any actual bugs identified in this thread. If things like collisions were modeled better it woulld arguably make AAR more difficult. 1 hour ago, AndyJWest said: I've seen comments from more than one person with real-world AAR experience that is is actually more difficult in DCS, due to lack of seat-of-your pants clues regarding acceleration etc, along with either no 3-D perception (monitor) or low resolution graphics (VR). This is a given for a PC game. Your vision is the only feedback you get. Recognizing this is an important step in the learning curve. Sim racing is the same way. It’s definitely possible to perceive relative motion and such on a 2D screen. 2 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
AndyJWest Posted March 3 Posted March 3 The radio message is simple enough, the first time you send it. But how is a beginner supposed to know that getting comms from the tanker during unsuccessful attempts to connect means that you may have to send 'ready pre-contact' again? There is absolutely nothing indicating that the basket/probe won't connect. As for bugs, at least one has come up in this thread - with the Harrier, it is entirely possible to get 'break away' comms from the tanker, while making a perfectly good approach to the probe. This is almost certainly due to the safe approach limits being set up for the F/A 18, which has the probe in an entirely different location. Frankly though, whether all this counts as 'bugs' or not is beside the point. It is counterintuitive, and poorly documented. Like so many things in DCS, it requires the poor beginner to read three forum threads, the official manual (inevitably out of date), and Chuck's Guide, and then watch two YouTube videos before they can even figure out what they are supposed to be doing.
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