KC-135 PDL lighting

[Cannonball]

It would be very helpful for me if the tanker guidance lighting could be turned WAY up. I have a hard time seeing the lights, especially in the F-4, and it may not be totally realistic but it would help a lot. Alternatively if a popup like the carrier "ball" could be added (with options for purists to disable) that would be spectacular.

Edited April 10 by Cannonball

[Tom P]

It's been brought up numerous times with barely any acknowledgement other then it's a "low priority" 

[schurem]

Better tanker lights would be awesome, same for runway and ship lights. Apparently getting them right is not an easy task.

Edited April 11 by schurem

[twistking]

4 hours ago, schurem said:

Apparently getting them right is not an easy task.

I don't think there has ever been an effort...

[Dragon1-1]

ED did get them right. RL pilots and boomers both said them being too dim to see was a common complaint IRL. "Sorry sir, the lights are full bright" was a common response to said complaints. 

[Tom P]

You can barely see the altitude PDL even with nods on one DCS. There's pictures online of that red light being easily identified. The KC-135 also has flood lights under the wings that light up the fuselage so it's not complete darkness. 

[sirrah]

4 minutes ago, Tom P said:

You can barely see the altitude PDL even with nods on one DCS. There's pictures online of that red light being easily identified. The KC-135 also has flood lights under the wings that light up the fuselage so it's not complete darkness. 

Sorry mate, but pictures don't necessarily represent what a pilot sees irl. 

For instance:

Former colleague of mine took this picture when we were at Eielson (Alaska)

In reality (not looking through the camera), we saw less than half of this.

 

But yeah, as an option/aid, it would be nice being able to crank up the PDL brightness a tad.

(as I mentioned in one of the other threads, imho all is better than some obtrusive overlay)

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

There is a mod in the User Files that works well. I’ve been using it for years

[Tom P]

I requested an overlay like the super carrier FLOLS. Doubt it but just throwing them some ideas for solutions. Making a F35 is easier then coding a light I guess.
 

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, Tom P said:

I requested an overlay like the super carrier FLOLS. Doubt it but just throwing them some ideas for solutions. Making a F35 is easier then coding a light I guess.

Although an overlay is nice, the sim features should be realistically readable without the need of using overlays. Zoom functionality also helps for 2D screens.

These lights should indeed be reviewed, I think.

Edited April 12 by Czar66

[Tom P]

14 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Although an overlay is nice, the sim features should be realistically readable without the need of using overlays. Zoom functionality also helps for 2D screens.

These lights should indeed be reviewed, I think.

100% needs revisited. It's even worse at night

[draconus]

That's why it's not good to mix the wishes in one thread. You could get 5 stars and a like for nice realistic lights work but you get 1 star instead for unrealistic pop up.

[Dragon1-1]

Honestly, all actual pilots I talked to (not many, I admit) said to forget the lights and just focus on the sight picture. Maybe at night (they do work at night, in VR at least), but what you really need to do is look at the tanker and figure out where you should be in relation to it. For instance, in the Phantom, I found the canopy bow should be about where the wings meet the tanker's fuselage.

[Mapi]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Dragon1-1:

Honestly, all actual pilots I talked to (not many, I admit) said to forget the lights and just focus on the sight picture. Maybe at night (they do work at night, in VR at least), but what you really need to do is look at the tanker and figure out where you should be in relation to it. For instance, in the Phantom, I found the canopy bow should be about where the wings meet the tanker's fuselage.

Really?
Yes, and you can drop the bombs just like that ...
So ED doesn't need to make a new model?
Wow

[Dragon1-1]

Definitely not to change the lights, I wouldn't mind if the tanker was prettier, though.  What we've got seem to be pretty close to reality, though. The sight picture is a bit tricky in the Viper because it doesn't have any good reference points like other aircraft do (the canopy bow tends to play a big role there, and Viper doesn't have one), but in other aircraft, it's always about picking a bit of the aircraft to aim with and referencing a spot on the tanker.

[Tom P]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Honestly, all actual pilots I talked to (not many, I admit) said to forget the lights and just focus on the sight picture. Maybe at night (they do work at night, in VR at least), but what you really need to do is look at the tanker and figure out where you should be in relation to it. For instance, in the Phantom, I found the canopy bow should be about where the wings meet the tanker's fuselage.

That's what I do. But at night when you can barely see the tanker and can barely see the lights you're pretty much SOL

[Dragon1-1]

They're visible at night, at least for me. Not super-bright, but enough to make them out. Then again, if playing on a screen, with extra light in the room, this may be another matter (in VR, darkness is dark, to the point of actually being unnerving). Worth noting, those lights, like KC-135s in general, were designed for refueling B-52s. That's why they're arranged the way they are, the B-52 is flown from the left seat, and thus the throttles are on the right, so you've got vertical on the left and longitudal on the right. Also, the gashole on the B-52 is way behind the cockpit, so when the Buff driver slides into position, he's got those lights right in his face. If you're flying anything smaller, as we do in DCS, you're at a disadvantage trying to make them out from way over yonder. Fighters were always intended to reference the boom, the Thud had the gashole in the nose, while in the Phantom's the GIB had a good view of what was going on with the boom, and would either provide running commentary to the AC, or simply fly the ship during tanking. Of course, in the Viper or the Eaglejet things are rather different.

Also, there was a story, recounted in the old F4.0:AF manual, about a Phantom driver in Vietnam who was getting gas from a tanker and couldn't see nothing. No moon, no lights, could barely make out the tanker, got his gas anyway, but it was a nervous moment. When his wingman had his go and formed back up he suggested to his lead that he raise his visor. So, refueling at night, with visor down, turned out to be quite possible, if not the recommended way of doing that.  

[Tom P]

KC-135 boomers help over the radio as well. "Up 2, Up 1," etc etc

[Tank50us]

8 hours ago, Tom P said:

KC-135 boomers help over the radio as well. "Up 2, Up 1," etc etc

I'd be all for this being a thing. Honestly, it'd be nice if a player could jump into that seat and both work the boom/drogue, and communicate with us. Trying to figure out where you have to be in order for the dang tanker to give "Clear contact" is certainly a hair puller for newer players until they finally get it right.

But yeah, I do agree with the OP, a 'helper' pop-up would be nice for this, just like the IFLOLS. It'd also be nice to have something for the probe and drogue guys as well. I will argue however that by default, they should be turned off. But those that need them can turn them on.

I did however find it funny how someone arguing against it thought it would break 'game balance' in MP... which made no sense to me, especially since there's no way to tell if a player is using those aids #1, and #2 it has no effect on combat. If it did, Jesters call-outs about enemy aircraft in a dogfight would be considered game breaking.