waiting for resolution ED/RAZBAM Situation Info & Discussion

[de_Lutz]

So, the Modules are dead in the future? When DCS 3.X.X releases for example?

Very sad. The Strike Eagle is one of my favorite planes

[St4RgAz3R]

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

From the statement:
 

Sadly, we cannot say more, but we are hoping that we can still resolve this. 

yep, hopes and wishes are all we are getting for the past year and so..  We would appreciate more to be done to actually resolve this 

[alejandr0]

8 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We 100% understand the frustration; we are frustrated as well. 

But understanding isn’t the same as action. What Steam users are asking for is not a refund directly from ED, but simply your or from ED management authorization for Steam to process an exceptional refund. Steam Support has stated that this is the only missing piece.

You keep repeating that the module “still works,” but that’s not the point. It’s no longer sold, no longer developed, and the developer is no longer supporting its modules. The situation is clearly exceptional.

If ED truly wants to support its community - especially those on Steam - this would be the moment to show it with more than just words.

Edited Friday at 03:56 PM by alejandr0

[av8orDave]

Today’s newsletter update is truly unbelievable. To say an agreement was reached but hasn’t been implemented, while saying “we can’t say any more”, with the context being that multiple forums say it hasn’t been implemented because ED hasn’t paid, is simply unreal.

[NineLine]

2 minutes ago, av8orDave said:

Today’s newsletter update is truly unbelievable. To say an agreement was reached but hasn’t been implemented, while saying “we can’t say any more”, with the context being that multiple forums say it hasn’t been implemented because ED hasn’t paid, is simply unreal.

We cannot comment more on anything due to the confidentiality of the agreement. I am sorry that others are trying to skew this, but nothing official beyond what we have said has been released. 

[JuiceIsLoose]

Can y'all at least comment on if this agreement has been withdrawn? Don't care what's in it. But if you can say it exits you can at least say if it's still active or if it has been withdrawn.

Edited Friday at 04:41 PM by JuiceIsLoose

[NineLine]

Just now, JuiceIsLoose said:

Can y'all at least comment that this agreement has been withdrawn? Don't care what's in it. But if you can say it exits you can at least say if it's still active or if it has been withdrawn.

It was agreed to by both parties, and as stated, we are hoping it will still be implemented as agreed to. 

[JuiceIsLoose]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

It was agreed to by both parties, and as stated, we are hoping it will still be implemented as agreed to. 

Then can you at least state that ED is holding up their end of the agreement in a timely manner? If an agreement was signed, and allegedly months ago, you would hope both parties would be fulfilling it asap. Just would like to know that ED hasn't been dragging their feet.

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Then can you at least state that ED is holding up their end of the agreement in a timely manner? If an agreement was signed, and allegedly months ago, you would hope both parties would be fulfilling it asap. Just would like to know that ED hasn't been dragging their feet.

We understand you are hearing a lot of noise out there, and we wish we could communicate more about it, but this is a legal issue with confidentiality that we will respect. Sorry. 

[JuiceIsLoose]

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We understand you are hearing a lot of noise out there, and we wish we could communicate more about it, but this is a legal issue with confidentiality that we will respect. Sorry. 

You are correct. There is a lot of noise out there. Not sure why you can't just say "Yes, ofcourse we are actively following through with our end of the agreement in a timely manner". Has nothing about what is in the agreement. Like it sounds dumb that I'm even have to ask you if ED is actually following through with an agreement, you would assume you are if you are posting about it. But that fact you guys can't wont even confirm that makes that outside noise start to make more sense.

[av8orDave]

Allow me to vent for a moment: I'm a long-time customer of Eagle Dynamics. I've played the game since it's inception with the Ka-50 and A-10. I own nearly every module and terrain, including the Razbam AV-8B, M2K, and F-15E. Regardless of how we got here, who is at fault, etc, I find it pretty disappointing that ED hasn't made any progress on exactly how they ensure the continuity of 3rd party modules, and it really, really irks me. This isn't the first time a 3rd party has created noise, and ultimately, it is ED's "ecosystem" to maintain.

What is ED's plan for if (when?) an update breaks the Razbam modules? Will there be a refund? How should I be reassured before buying 3rd party modules in the future?

What a disappointing situation. I'm pretty well to the point that future purchases are on hold.

Just now, JuiceIsLoose said:

You are correct. There is a lot of noise out there. Not sure why you can't just say "Yes, ofcourse we are actively following through with our end of the agreement in a timely manner". Has nothing about what is in the agreement. Like it sounds dumb that I'm even have to ask you if ED is actually following through with an agreement, you would assume you are if you are posting about it. But that fact you guys can't wont even confirm that makes that outside noise start to make more sense.

This exactly. "We're holding up our end of the deal" is apparently too much to ask? The alternative of no statement looks pretty bad.

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

You are correct. There is a lot of noise out there. Not sure why you can't just say "Yes, ofcourse we are actively following through with our end of the agreement in a timely manner". Has nothing about what is in the agreement. Like it sounds dumb that I'm even have to ask you if ED is actually following through with an agreement, you would assume you are if you are posting about it. But that fact you guys can't wont even confirm that makes that outside noise start to make more sense.

We are acting in good faith on the agreement, yes. Sorry, in my head, we shouldn't have to say that, but I understand why you all need to hear it. 

[Nebula_Creates]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

We 100% understand the frustration; we are frustrated as well. 

If we do come to a point where the Mirage 2000c, Harrier, MiG-19, and F-15E are no longer supported or are in such a state as to be unplayable, I presume customers will be issued compensation for these products? I only play multiplayer and I have rather little faith at this point that these modules can be maintained in a functional state, much less will be allowed to perpetually remain in DCS. If we get to a point where we've got a Hawk situation... then the product I purchased is no longer being provided to me in a way I could use it.

[NineLine]

Just now, Nebula_Creates said:

If we do come to a point where the Mirage 2000c, Harrier, MiG-19, and F-15E are no longer supported or are in such a state as to be unplayable, I presume customers will be issued compensation for these products? I only play multiplayer and I have rather little faith at this point that these modules can be maintained in a functional state, much less will be allowed to perpetually remain in DCS. If we get to a point where we've got a Hawk situation... then the product I purchased is no longer being provided to me in a way I could use it.

We are only offering store credit on the F-15E in our E-shop for E-shop purchases. I have not heard of any plan to offer any sort of refund on the others, nor would I expect it. I would rather things just get sorted, that remains my hope. 

[WipeUout]

10 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I have not heard of any plan to offer any sort of refund on the others, nor would I expect it.

Modules working for version XXX, no refunds. This is starting to sound like the Hawk's course of action.

An agreement was reached at the end of 2024 but no announcement about it then?  Why?  You agreed on what? To disagree?  Guys, you are opening the doors of speculation and frustration even wider.  Stop listening to lawyers and start using more common sense. 

[Sknusk]

Is the dispute delaying the introduction of new features like Vulkan, dynamic campaign or other anticipated core features because it would break compatibility with the Razbam modules without updates to their code?

[NineLine]

Just now, Sknusk said:

Is the dispute delaying the introduction of new features like Vulkan, dynamic campaign or other anticipated core features because it would break compatibility with the Razbam modules without updates to their code?

No, not at all. 

[aaronwhite]

7 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Modules working for version XXX, no refunds. This is starting to sound like the Hawk's course of action.

An agreement was reached at the end of 2024 but no announcement about it then?  Why?  You agreed on what? To disagree?  Guys, you are opening the doors of speculation and frustration even wider.  Stop listening to lawyers and start using more common sense. 

They obviously can't say what they agreed to. Have people not seen legal agreements like this before? They generally severely restrict what anyone is legally able to say without blowing up the entire agreement, which would be a very stupid thing for ED to do.

[ebabil]

I am confused, have you reached to an agreement to solve this problem for good? And something is holding the agreement up?

[alejandr0]

28 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We are only offering store credit on the F-15E in our E-shop for E-shop purchases. I have not heard of any plan to offer any sort of refund on the others, nor would I expect it. I would rather things just get sorted, that remains my hope. 

I appreciate all recent clarifications, but I believe it's time to directly address a point that many users are quietly struggling with.

Refunds in the form of store credit are being offered only for purchases made via the DCS E-shop.
Users who purchased the F-15E on Steam — which used to be an officially supported platform - are left with no option, despite the module being abandoned by its original developer and removed from sale.
ED has acknowledged it has no access to the module’s code and still cannot guarantee future support or updates.
This situation closely mirrors the VEAO Hawk case, where the module was eventually deprecated, and Steam customers were left with a broken product. Why repeat this cycle?

You say: “We hope to make it work.”
But respectfully, hopes do not restore consumer trust. Actions do.
Steam Support has already told me that they are willing to process a refund, even beyond standard policy, if ED authorizes it. That’s all. A one-line statement from ED to Valve, confirming agreement.

So my questions are simple:
Will ED management change its stance regarding Steam refunds for the F-15E module?
If not, is there any scenario under which such authorization would be considered?

Please don’t deflect this with more “we hope” language. At this point, we need a firm yes or no.
Lastly, I do appreciate that some team members have acknowledged the frustration. I’m not alone in this — many others have expressed the same. We don’t expect miracles.
Just fairness and clarity.

[Fran11player]

@NineLine Please, can you tell, fair and square, if already existing (and paid from many) Razbam modules will work or not in upcoming DCS 3.X.XX versions?

Thank you very much in advance.

[Lasko]

20 minutes ago, alejandr0 said:

Steam Support has already told me

How many times are you going to ask this expecting a different answer?  And "Steam Support" has no idea about how the contracts and agreements between ED and RB play into any decision like that.  Quoting "Steam Support" is useless in this discussion.

[alejandr0]

9 minutes ago, Lasko said:

How many times are you going to ask this expecting a different answer?  And "Steam Support" has no idea about how the contracts and agreements between ED and RB play into any decision like that.  Quoting "Steam Support" is useless in this discussion.

Why not stand up for what’s fair? Steam Support already told me they can issue a refund as an exception but only if ED agrees.
So yes, I’ll keep asking, because I believe customers deserve better, especially in a situation like this where the module was pulled from sale and abandoned.
Doing nothing solves nothing.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

1 minute ago, Blazkovitch said:

I guess that only one party respects the NDA. And the „publicly known practices” is yet another proof that RB is trying to weaponize community.

lol. Just lol. What are you even saying?

[Tank50us]

50 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Modules working for version XXX, no refunds. This is starting to sound like the Hawk's course of action.

An agreement was reached at the end of 2024 but no announcement about it then?  Why?  You agreed on what? To disagree?  Guys, you are opening the doors of speculation and frustration even wider.  Stop listening to lawyers and start using more common sense. 

They agreed to halt sales of the modules pending resolution of the suit. This was likely so there'd be a concrete number on how much ED has put aside for Razbam, should a resolution be reached where RB CAN be paid.

Key thing to remember here... from what we know... RB breached the contract, and refused to negotiate further... and then dropped the bombshell announcement that made this all public. Since then, it's been a quagmire.

Personally... I have my views on what should happen:

1. The relationship goes back to the way it was, and the modules get support from RB again.

2. RB backs out, hands over the source code to ED, who then doles them out to teams who can handle further development (the F1 gets get the M2K, Mag gets the Harrier, HB get the Strike Eagle, etc)

3. RB backs out, but ED retains the source codes to maintain the modules for the short term, and reopens sale of said modules. They'll work, but won't receive major updates until ED can bring in people who can add features.