Maneuvering On The Ground With Differential Braking

[Doughguy]

27 minutes ago, Art-J said:

No you can't* and that's not what this thread was initially about. All the talk anout the wind derailed it, albeit one can assume two SEPARATE issues discussed here might be somehow connected in the code. The issues are:

1) Inability of the tail wheel to caster freely while unlocked, which makes making tight turns with diff brakes (ie. taxiing out of parking spot to perpendicular taxiway) impossible unless you use full rudder + stupid amounts of power to literally scrape the tailwheel sideways across the ground. Simply put - tailwheel always remains locked either fully or partially (ie. it kinda unlocks but to about 30'ish degrees only). Watch the video of the real thing posted by Super Wabbit on the previous page. Wind or no wind, It's impossible to do the same sort of turn in DCS Corsair right now. 

* Makind mild turns with rudder only as in DCS Mustang is perfectly doable indeed, but that's not what we're talking about here.

2) Some excessive weathervaning caused by adding wind component to the mission. What wind speed threshold maxes turning impossible is still to be determined.

I would also add a third issue of tailwheel getting stuck hard in the mud if one incidentally rolls off the runway/taxiway on some maps, which makes the plane very difficult to get moving again, but It's a different issue and I don't want to derail the thread myself.

This video?

Well i posted a track where i exactly do that. Iirc i dont even need full rudder.
Ill retry later.

I can only state that only if wind is involved that i cannot turn. Dont experience this with other a/c.

Its the same in Geo´s track. He´s got wind in the mission. Remove that and tadaaa.. works.

Edited yesterday at 03:08 PM by Doughguy

[LeCuvier]

I agree. With little or no wind she handles very nicely. When I first saw postings about ground handling issues, I wondered if my plane was somehow different. But by adding wind to my test missions I was brutally corrrected. Somebody says that the tail wheel is broken from spawn. I believe that would make landing difficult past touchdown. But landing is a pleasure as long as no wind is concerned.

[Doughguy]

I re-run the corsair.

With zero wind i have absolutally zero issues taxiing. Either doing donuts on the spot or driving around corners.
"corsair taxi test wind.trk" has 5m/s wind.
Wind is west to east. You can already see that it gets difficult to start a donut on the spot and while taxiing the nose always wants to drift into the wind.
With 10m/s you can forget  turns past 90 deg and taxiing is only limited into the wind.

I tried the same with 10m/s wind and a mustang. Works like a charm. Hardly noticable effect.

I didnt need any rudder to do any manouvering. Just tried here and there to watch the effect.

Whilest the 3d model might not display a freely castering model, the physics still do it.
So i still say, the wind is the culprit here.

Might mean, either the corsair model is wrong, or its right and ED´s models never took this into account.

corsair taxi test 2.trk corsair taxi test 10 ms wind.trk corsair taxi test no wind.trk corsair taxi test wind.trk mustang taxi test 10 ms wind.trk

Edited 12 hours ago by Doughguy

[Doughguy]

On 8/16/2025 at 6:55 PM, GeoS72 said:

@JupiterJoe, @Doughguy, & @-Rudel-

Here are my tests in an F4U and P-47 with diff braking. See relevant track & MIZ files.

These conditions are confirmed:
1. Damage to Corsair at initial spawn.
2. Corsair "slams" on deck after repair - potentially damaging tail wheel; no notice for sustained damage.
3. Poor turn radius with tail wheel unlocked (before and after repair).
4. Sharp turns in Corsair under 0 wind conditions by increasing engine to takeoff speed. Tail lifts off deck and diff braking is achieved.
5. Demonstrated the dangers of diff braking with high engine power & tail off deck in the Corsair.
6. Corsair track file with repair has accelerated time after initiating the repair cycle.
7. P-47 repair cycle NOT triggered at spawn point.
8. P-47 can perform sharp turns when engine near takeoff power. Tail lifts off deck & diff braking achieved with tail wheel locked.
9. External views yielded a visual difference between Corsair & P-47 tail wheel caster effects. Corsair shows limited, approx (+/-) 20 deg caster; P-47 tail wheel showed 90 deg caster.

Conclusion:
F4U-1D Corsair tail wheel model appears to be damaged at spawn and/or aircraft has too much weight on the tail wheel to prevent full caster.

@JupiterJoe, I never put a lot of thought behind the repair cycle for aircraft. Thanks for sharing that pearl of wisdom!

2025-08-16 F4U Turn Rate-No Wind.trk 1.01 MB · 1 download 2025-08-16 F4U Turn Rate-No Wind-Repair.trk 1.53 MB · 1 download 2025-08-16 P47 Turn Rate-No Wind-Repair.trk 1.86 MB · 1 download Corsair-Turn Test-No Wind.miz 11.79 kB · 1 download

 

21 hours ago, GeoS72 said:

This is the struggle that most of us experience. In this track file, I attempted to taxi to the takeoff spot in the Corsair School campaign. The player is directed to taxi forward, turn left to the takeoff point (indicated by green smoke). I wasn't able to get there. Without using the brakes, the plane started turning right, all on its own. I don't know if there was a cross-wind or wind component. I attempted to use the power up then pivot left. I couldn't even do that. See the track file.

This module is massively bugged and is a BIG fail. A player struggles just to take off. That has 0 fun-factor. I will NOT fly this plane until the diff braking problem is resolved.

Please address this problem SOONER than LATER. What good is an airplane if you can't taxi to the runway?

2025-08-16 Corsair School Cant Turn to Takeoff.trk 6.9 MB · 1 download

Ok i watched your tracks.
What i notice is the following in the first four.
You really stomp on those brakes. Either very ligh tapping not fully pushing through or stay on it slightly.
You want to turn while youre very slow. The whole plane will come to a halt. She needs momentum.
So either apply more power if slow and while stepping on one brake or if possible gain some speed.
Its basically the same with any other warbird.
Its the same with the video in Mud´s post. The Corsair lands, has momentum and does a 180.
If you barely move, you need to increase power.
I cant check the P47 as i dont have that one. But it works the very same on the 51, and the axis birds for me.
On the track with the repair you step on both, go full power and then release one break as the nose lifts.
As the nose lifts there is a point where she will skid forward. its not possible to control her in that moment, especially if you let go of one brake. She´ll skid forward.
You do not need to apply full power.
Step on one brake, and steadily increase power to about half the travel of the throttle. She´ll immediatelly start doin donuts on the spot.

 

The track with the corsair school has wind in it. I tried it myself and i cannot turn aswell. Only into the wind. Once i set it to 0 it worked.

You´re very harsh on the brakes. Those planes need some swing to turn, or more power.
See my tracks above and just watch my throttle and pedals.

If you´re stationary you stomp one pedal and apply more power. If youre on the move you either tap slightly to correct, or step on it slightly to turn.
The sharper or more prolonged the turn is, the more you need to compensate by adding power.

Again, this works easy with the corsair without wind. Add wind, and you can turn only into the wind. It does not happen for me with any of the axis birds or the 51. Dont have the other warbirds.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Doughguy

[OmasRachE]

I did try to fly that Mission in Nellis again. Did a repair at the beginning and the ground chief told me that this would take 170 seconds. Shouldn´t be damaged at all on mission start. But that did not change anything. I don´t know the wind settings in this particular mission but I only can say that the plane is not flyable at this point. I cannot by any effort taxi to the runway. 

 

I´m not sure if I missed something, but is it confirmed a bug you are working on Rudel?

[Cgjunk2]

On 8/15/2025 at 10:21 PM, -Rudel- said:

This....we can't please every user.  Not possible.

It doesn't help that we can't use ED's new suspension system too.

I'm not sure if your response is addressing the tail wheel behavior or wind behavior.  I was wondering if it's possible to make the tail wheel behave like it's fully castering?  Currently, it needs unrealistic amounts of power and too much differential braking to get it to swing around.  It currently behaves (and visually appears) to drag the tailwheel across the tarmac when it's turning.   In reality, a plane with a fully castering tailwheel (unlocked),  should need some initial braking momentarily to initiate the turn, maybe a touch of throttle (certainly not half throttle), and afterwords the tail should swing around freely, all by itself,  and without further braking or even rudder input from the pilot.  And if you were to do it slightly too fast, the swing out could be rather violent (ground loop) and hard to stop.

For example, the P47 demonstrates the normal physics of a fully castering tail wheel quiet well.   

Is it possible to fix the tailwheel behavior, or is it considered correct at this point?

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Cgjunk2

[Cgjunk2]

16 hours ago, Doughguy said:

This video?

Well i posted a track where i exactly do that. Iirc i dont even need full rudder.
Ill retry later.

I can only state that only if wind is involved that i cannot turn. Dont experience this with other a/c.

Its the same in Geo´s track. He´s got wind in the mission. Remove that and tadaaa.. works.

I'm confused by the purpose of your responses.   Are you saying the tailwheel on the corsair is working normally?   Or are you saying it's possible to make it turn by doing various things that aren't necessary in real life?  Or that it shouldn't be considered a bug because you can figure out a hack to make it turn?   

[-Rudel-]

The tail wheel fork on the actual model itself is animated correctly. ED requires 180 degrees both directions.

The programming of differential breaking is correctly programmed.  The game uses a simple "stick" that acts as the tail gear/wheel.  It doesn't rotate or move when extended.

The issue is the 3d visual of the fork doesn't rotate 360 degrees properly in game.  We are aware of the issue for many years, and can't seem to rectify it.

[OmasRachE]

Thanks for your reply Rudel but I don´t think that has anything to do with our issues. I don´t care if the animation spins or not. My problem is, that the corsair does not turn. Regardless of what I am trying, just differential breaking, just rudder input or both combined, at low speed or higher speed, with full throttle or just a little bit and anything in between.  For me it is impossible to taxi to the runway. So are you aware of this? Of course I have unlocked the tail weel. Maybe that has to do with the wind, could be as I can´t tell that is a matter of a specific direction I want to turn. Sometimes the plane is forced to the left, when I try to make a 270 degree turn to end up facing right it is also not possible, since the plane refuses to  turn any further at some point.

Edited 8 hours ago by OmasRachE

[Doughguy]

2 hours ago, Cgjunk2 said:

I'm confused by the purpose of your responses.   Are you saying the tailwheel on the corsair is working normally?   Or are you saying it's possible to make it turn by doing various things that aren't necessary in real life?  Or that it shouldn't be considered a bug because you can figure out a hack to make it turn?   

Please see my tracks. I am pretty much able to do differential braking. Easily.

It only becomes a problem when wind is involved.

In my last tracks i pretty much showed i can do 180 deg turns, donuts and taxi normaly with brakes only.

[OmasRachE]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Doughguy:

It only becomes a problem when wind is involved.

Yeah but then its unmanageble, at least for me. This can´t be the intention of the developer and has nothing to do with real life, since 10 kts wind is not a thunderstorm. It can´t be the solution to remove wind out of every mission.

[Doughguy]

As was said, i cant say if the f4u is wrong in that regard, or EDs models never took weathervaning into account.

But then, the corsair is pretty large and has a huge rudder compared to other warbirds.

Also at 10 kts / 5m/s it was still kinda managable, but you noticed the effects.

Double the amount and it wasnt possible anymore, as per my tracks.

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Doughguy

[OmasRachE]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Doughguy:

As was said, i cant say if the f4u is wrong in that regard, or EDs models never took weathervaning into account.

But then, the corsair is pretty large and has a huge rudder compared to other warbirds.

I can tell that this is nonsence because otherwise that plane would never have been used during the war, since nobody could deactivate wind in real life. I´m sure with a fair amount of wind you would notice that it doesn´t turn that easy, but unless there is a thunderstorm, I´m pretty sure the original Corsair could handle 10 kts of crosswind while taxiing. 

[Doughguy]

With 10 kts is somewhat still doable.

Ive done the tracks with that.

10 kts is roughly 5m/s wind.

Double that and youre stuck.

Edited 6 hours ago by Doughguy

[OmasRachE]

Still nonsence. So it would be nice from Mag3 to affirm a bug and give some perspektive for a solution.

[Doughguy]

Well i cant comment on that as im no pilot nor have i ever handled a corsair myself.

The thread/bug report is about differential braking not working.

Well it does work. With zero to little wind. If people cannot taxi with zero wind its a "skill issue" to put it bluntly.

But i agree that the influence seems excessive. Again, "seems", as i have no rl experience. As will most folks on here.

Anyway im repeating myself.

Would be nice indeed if the mag3 guys could check into that.

We just have to wait.

[-Rudel-]

Right now the programmers are focused on the water injection and engine damage model.

They'll look into it afterwards

[Art-J]

On 8/17/2025 at 5:03 PM, Doughguy said:

This video?

Well i posted a track where i exactly do that.

Sigh....

Nah, you didn't, that's the point, at least not in both no-wind-taxiing tracks. Granted, I watched only these two to take the problematic wind out of equation. There's nothing in them comparable to the video, which shows that plane's inertia in itself, at a taxiing speed comparable to a jogging man, is sufficient to groundloop, even with engine off. It corresponds more or less  to how the other single engine DCS warbirds behave, except Corsair (and I-16,which I don't own so can't comment on it).

Your tracks, however, show different behaviour and highlight one of the issues I pointed above - you need to throttle up to military power for a moment (40-45" @ 2700) and then keep it at cruise power (30" @ 2700) to swing the tail around. That's simply not right.

Let me post a short track of 109, doing something similar to the Corsair vid. No peripherals plugged in, so only mouse and keyboard were used. Even though I didn't keep the left brake on and just tapped it after shutting off the engine, the plane kept tightening the turn, as any taildragger with castering tailwheel would and should. Now, If I tried to do the same in DCS Corsair, it would stop straight, that's the issue. 

I don't mind imperfect tailwheel animation if it indeed turns out to be general DCS limitation that we have to deal with. Tough luck. There's something iffy with inertia (or rudder effectiveness?) at low power and taxiing speeds, however, and I hope devs will find some time to revise it again in the not-too-distant future. 

 

109_turn.trk