How to actually fly a helicopter?

[Tasky]

Hi all, 

First post and sorry it's such a noob question... I've just started DCS, been going through the F/A-18 tutorial and found it pretty great in terms of learning basic flight stuff.

Of course my real love is helicopters and the Gazelle is one of my favourites, so I decided to have a bash at that, thinking the tutorial would be comparable to the F18 one... The Startup chapter was great and I really loved learning the sequence. Only thing missing was voice narration.

But the next chapter is Weapons, for which you need to start in a stable hover. Since there's no tutorial on how to hover, land or fly in general, and since I seem to be pretty naff at figuring out how to do it with the trial-and-error method, the obvious question is...

What would people recommend for learning to actually fly a helicopter in general, so I can get to flying the Gazelle?

 

Many thanks, 

Tasky.

[Ornithopter]

I do have advice.  Start with the UH-1.  Fly it, and practice it until you can hover it over a dime. Get a book from Amazon about flying Helicopters.  It will explain things like steep approaches, pinacle landings, etc.   You probably will need to get good rudder pedals and a joystick extension.  Once you do that my friend, you will be able to load up any helicopter in DCS, map the basic controls, and fly it around the world first time, no probs.   Avionics is a different matter and will try your patience in some of the more modern helicopters.

Edited yesterday at 10:23 PM by Ornithopter

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Check out the YouTube channel “Helicopter lessons in 10 minutes or less”.

That will give you background information in order to understand why stuff happens the way it does.

There are also other YT channels dedicated to DCS helicopters.

[MAXsenna]

Hey @Taskyhow are and welcome to the forum! 

What kind of peripherals do you have?

It's of course easier with an FFB cyclic or a joystick without springs, and pedals. Most throttles work fine as collective, ( as a personal choice I make sure to invert the axis so it works more like a collective). 

To get into a hover so you can invoke the auto hover, turn the switch on the ADI to doppler. Then you align the two yellow "pins" so they overlap in a perfect cross. It's also very handy for practicing hovers.

I don't remember the training missions that much, but you can "cheat" and get into a semi hover, and invoke "Active Pause" during the weapons employment. You won't be able to turn though. So make sure you point at the targets. 

I also recommend reading the manual, to see what other tricks you can do to make the instrumenta help you. 

Cheers! 

Edited yesterday at 10:28 PM by MAXsenna

[Hiob]

7 hours ago, Ornithopter said:

I do have advice.  Start with the UH-1.  Fly it, and practice it until you can hover it over a dime. Get a book from Amazon about flying Helicopters.  It will explain things like steep approaches, pinacle landings, etc.   You probably will need to get good rudder pedals and a joystick extension.  Once you do that my friend, you will be able to load up any helicopter in DCS, map the basic controls, and fly it around the world first time, no probs.   Avionics is a different matter and will try your patience in some of the more modern helicopters.

Why would you start with the Huey when your real love is the Gazelle. 

You can learn to fly a helicopter with the Gazelle just fine. They work the same, even if they might feel a bit different in a direct A to B comparison.

@Tasky Only general advice I have (apart from watching Youtube tutorials), do everything slow and in small increments (talking about collective, pedals and cyclic).

Add power slowly until you feel the Helicopter wanting to yaw. Hold it there and compensate with rudder. Add a little more, rinse and repeat. Eventually the Helicopter starts to tilt (pitch and bank), compensate with cyclic. (Maybe it wants to tilt before it wants to yaw, than you need to compensate this first…. small increments. Eventually it will become fluid on its own)

If you do everything VERY slowly, you will eventually be able to balance it and pick it up. From there it is just practice, practice, practice.

It helps if you have a stick with a long throw and little spring resistance.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Hiob

[Tasky]

Thanks all!

Max - I'm using a WinWing setup - the Orion2 throttle, enhanced F16 stick and Skywalker pedals. The plan was to get their Black Shark collective so I could swap between planes/spaceships and rotary wing, but they discontinued that right after I bought the base HOTAS.  

I've been binging YouTube videos. Most cover the collective/pedal bit and I can get to that point, as well as usually avoiding the right rollover. But instead of lifting up into a hover (which some YT wizards seem able to do without any cyclic), I usually end up sliding left or backwards into the scenery. No amount of extra collective or cyclic seems to help. 

It's like I know what I should be doing, but can't see what's happening in order to react accordingly.

The best I've managed is a hazardously aggressive launch into the air at 80-90% collective, whereafter I can transition to forward flight and enjoy bimbling around the Georgian countryside... and while I understand how to land in theory, I can't yet manage it without smashing myself into a ball of flame!! 

Other than that, I've really enjoyed the Gaz module, and have even fudged an Auto-hover enough to get a few HOT-3 hits on targets. It's just the fundamental manoeuvres I'm desperate to figure out. 

[Ornithopter]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

Why would you start with the Huey when your real love is the Gazelle. 

 

I can think of several reasons, but I won't get into them now.  The point is, a new flight sim helicopter pilot first develops the motor skills to fly a helicopter without all the fancy stuff.  If the Gazelle fills that role well, then that's just fine.  I should have also pointed out that it took me an absurd amount of time to be able to fly the Huey with even a moron level of competence.  I'm glad I took that time and put in the work, the old school way.  Becoming a decent flyer was a lot more than just going through a tutorial once or twice, with a few notes, like most people do when getting a new fixed-wing aircraft.  It was a whole new realm.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Ornithopter said:

If the Gazelle fills that role well, then that's just fine. 

I would've recommended the Huey too as a starter, but it seems he already got the Gazelle, so I focused on that.  

[Lace]

The principle difference between fixed and rotary wing flying is that a fixed wing aircraft will, without any input from the pilot fly perfectly well all by itself in most circumstances.  A helicopter requires constant inputs, and not only that, each control input has second and third order effects which need to be countered.  This is the trick.  At first you will be reacting to each effect but with time you will learn to anticipate the required corrections and without even thinking you will move cyclic, collective and rudder (anti-torque) pedals as one.

Some of the best youtube videos I have seen are by vsTerminus - YouTube - these are mostly Mi-8 but the principle is the same, and importantly, the main rotor rotation is the same as the Gazelle (unlike the American stuff which turn the opposite way confusing things further - don't try to learn the Huey and Gazelle at the same time!).

Helicopters require a lot of practice but once it clicks they will start to feel more natural.  The beauty of DCS means you can have as many tries as you need, without expensive repair or hospital bills!

[Jef Costello]

Yes I too highly recommend vsTerminus. Furthermore he focused on the Mi8 which require the same direction imput for the yaw axis. Don't forget to use the flight controls indication and be soft on the controls, choppers don't like at all aggressivity 

[Hiob]

Indeed, the vsTerminus Videos are awesome. Unfortunately he quit making videos a while ago, but the Mi-8 tutorials are still great! (and as Lace correctly pointed out, applicable to the Gazelle).

(btw. the Mi-8 is the Helicopter that I learned flying on in DCS. Of course that is personal bias, but I would choose the Hip over the Huey everyday. But this is also because I'm a sucker for the switchology in the Hip. No coldstart is more satisfying than the russian bus....)

Edited 13 hours ago by Hiob

[Tasky]

8 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I would've recommended the Huey too as a starter, but it seems he already got the Gazelle, so I focused on that.  

I did also pick up the Huey and Apache, as they were both on sale, if that helps?

I saw a documentary about British Army pilots in the 90s, where they did a short course in a Chipmunk before going straight on to the Gazelle. Guess that was too much to hope for, eh! 

[Hiob]

9 minutes ago, Tasky said:

I did also pick up the Huey and Apache, as they were both on sale, if that helps?

I saw a documentary about British Army pilots in the 90s, where they did a short course in a Chipmunk before going straight on to the Gazelle. Guess that was too much to hope for, eh! 

The main problem with different helicopters is that US/western helicopters have their main rotor turn in the opposite direction than eastern/some european models. In DCS that would be the Huey, Apache, Kiowa on one side and the Gazelle and Hip on the other.
That's not a problem per se, but you need to apply anti-torque pedal to the opposite direction, which of course messes up your muscle memory (especially if you are not already proficient with helicopter flying).

The basic stick and rudder (and collectice) skills you need for a helicopter are fundamentally different from fixed wing (well, before ETL or transition speeds - beyond that it becomes similar). You need to constantly balance the three inputs. There is no inherent stability.

[Hiob]

It is really good advice to watch some videos on basic helicopter principles first, them some flying tutorials. Of course nothing keeps you from diving into the deep end and just hold-my-beer it in DCS. I mean, you can't really die. But I would recommend the first approach.

[erniedaoage]

When i bought the ka-50 before dcs world existed, it was quite a frustrating experience for me. Learning curve was so steep, it felt like i am a tourist in shorts and shirt, with a water bottle and flip flops going to climb mount everest. But a lot of youtube tutorials, reading wikipedia and trial and error took me through my first successful mission and the feeling was just awesome. 

[Yurgon]

16 hours ago, Hiob said:

If you do everything VERY slowly, you will eventually be able to balance it and pick it up. From there it is just practice, practice, practice.

All of this is great advice!

I just have one issue with both Polychop modules (Gazelle and Kiowa) in that there seems to be some kind of ground friction effect that actually makes it very hard to take off into a hover slowly.

In the Kiowa in particular, it's possible to skid forward with full aft cyclic when there's just enough collective to keep the helicopter on the ground.

In the Gazelle, it's a bit different, but the helicopter's controls still feel different as long as at least one skid is still in contact with the ground, compared to when it's truly airborne, even if just by half a foot.

It's as if the flight model uses a different set of parameters. I don't observe this kind of behavior in any other DCS helicopter.

So personally in both Gazelle and Kiowa, I get them light on the skids until they start to yaw, put in power pedal to stop the yaw, and them nudge them into the air with a good pull on the collective. An outside observer would see the helicopter jump into the air and then establish at 2, 3, 4ish feet.

I wonder if this is what's throwing Tasky off?

One easy way to share your progress with us is to do a short flight, demo your takeoff problems, and then after quitting the mission, hit "Save Track" and share that .trk file with us (maybe via Google Drive/OneDrive etc. if it's too big for the forum). That track recording allows us to virtually look over your shoulder and give some more specific advice.

[Hiob]

56 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

All of this is great advice!

I just have one issue with both Polychop modules (Gazelle and Kiowa) in that there seems to be some kind of ground friction effect that actually makes it very hard to take off into a hover slowly.

In the Kiowa in particular, it's possible to skid forward with full aft cyclic when there's just enough collective to keep the helicopter on the ground.

In the Gazelle, it's a bit different, but the helicopter's controls still feel different as long as at least one skid is still in contact with the ground, compared to when it's truly airborne, even if just by half a foot.

It's as if the flight model uses a different set of parameters. I don't observe this kind of behavior in any other DCS helicopter.

So personally in both Gazelle and Kiowa, I get them light on the skids until they start to yaw, put in power pedal to stop the yaw, and them nudge them into the air with a good pull on the collective. An outside observer would see the helicopter jump into the air and then establish at 2, 3, 4ish feet.

I wonder if this is what's throwing Tasky off?

One easy way to share your progress with us is to do a short flight, demo your takeoff problems, and then after quitting the mission, hit "Save Track" and share that .trk file with us (maybe via Google Drive/OneDrive etc. if it's too big for the forum). That track recording allows us to virtually look over your shoulder and give some more specific advice.

I know what you mean. The tendency to tip over sideways due to "sticky" skids. The best way to deal with that (imHo) is to actually know (roughly) where you need to position the cyclic for a hover, hold it there right from the start and then carefully add collective until it starts moving. Of course you need to counteract any tipping moment immedietly (but measured, not erratic).

"Jumping" up to overcome the critical phase is a workaround, but I think it reinforces problematic habbits and should be avoided if possible. (I always imagine I have an accident victim with a spinal injury on board....)

 

[MAXsenna]

56 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

So personally in both Gazelle and Kiowa, I get them light on the skids until they start to yaw, put in power pedal to stop the yaw, and them nudge them into the air with a good pull on the collective.

You could be right about the Gazelle though I can't remember for the Kiowa. I find the Kiowa is the easiest of them all actually.

The Gazelle for sure had some "sticky" issues a while back. It was like one of the skids was glued to the ground. Especially sand in the PG.

Tought me a neat trick though. Whenever I take off in the Gazelle, I'll apply right pedal torque, (I pretty much know how much about now), push cyclic forward and pull the collective in a firm steady motion, like you say, and off I go.  

[TFS]

Understanding what a helicopter does and why it does it is the best start. 
 

Learning the Gaz is a blast, I think it's one of the most fun helos to fly. For lifting, start by repping having the helo still, and slowly increasing the collective until it starts to move. This is important, the rotation of the rotors torque you left heavily, so you then counter the rotation with the pedals, (anti torque). Rep that over and over again, get the muscle memory of when she wants to spin and how much pressure to apply to the pedal. Drop collective and balance pedals, rep that until you know when and how to equally apply pedal and collective so it doesn't spin.

From here, begin to get it in the air doing the same process. Eventually you'll learn with some forward momentum, nosing down ever so slightly when to release the pedals to maintain the heading. Now this process is exactly the same in reverse, so for landing, remember that same transition getting up and into forward flight and leaving ground effect, only you now do it while returning to the ground through ground effect. Hoping this is making sense to you. 

You'll get faster and faster and faster with this. Thats the basic of getting off the ground, and back on it. Next learning forward momentum with ETL (effective translation lift) can be helpful, and so on and so forth. Take you time, no rush. 

I recommend a MP server called angels of levant. It's a non combative SAR server, it rotates between Syria and Caucasus on restarts like every few hours. Basically you fly around and pick up single patients and return them to hospitals. Syria is best for forcing you to learn to land and takeoff it areas you don't get to choose, confined spaced, hover pickups etc. I still to this day go on there and rep for hours getting in and out faster and faster and faster with each rotary airframe. Eventually it becomes natural. 

Also, if you have VR, or can stomach and afford it and your PC can run it well. It's basically a cheat code for helos, full depth perception and can get the sense of vertical reference. 

[Tasky]

3 hours ago, Yurgon said:

I wonder if this is what's throwing Tasky off?

I can get to the point of light skids, torque pedals balanced. From there it should be a gentle collective lift into the hover, according to the demo videos... Instead I usually either end up with left stick to counter a right roll and start bouncing along the ground, or I start sliding left or backwards even with full forward stick. 

I'll have a bash at making some .trk files over the next few days. I'm only messing about in the training missions so far - Do those record too, or do I need to hop on a server somewhere?

I'm also thinking I need a proper collective. The WinWing throttle is awesome, but I often find myself pulling to lift collective, instead of pushing the levers... which is weird, as I don't have any muscle memory for a collective!! 

Every flight is a confusing disaster, yet somehow still so much fun!

 

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Tasky said:

I can get to the point of light skids, torque pedals balanced. From there it should be a gentle collective lift into the hover, according to the demo videos... Instead I usually either end up with left stick to counter a right roll and start bouncing along the ground, or I start sliding left or backwards even with full forward stick. 

I'll have a bash at making some .trk files over the next few days. I'm only messing about in the training missions so far - Do those record too, or do I need to hop on a server somewhere?

I'm also thinking I need a proper collective. The WinWing throttle is awesome, but I often find myself pulling to lift collective, instead of pushing the levers... which is weird, as I don't have any muscle memory for a collective!! 

Every flight is a confusing disaster, yet somehow still so much fun!

 

That‘s a tough one. I don’t have a collective and use just the throttle. Initially I inverted the Throttle for helicopters to mimic the pulling motion, but that totally messed up my muscle memory. Ultimately, long arm -> more power, short arm -> less power. That would be my recommendation unless you get a real collective. (Which you don’t need to have a blast with helicopters imho).

Your pickup problem sounds to me as if you haven’t mastered the coordination between inputs yet. You can‘t stop doing one while adjusting the other. The more collective you apply, the more anti torque pedal you need to give etc. That‘s not a shortcoming, just a lack of practice.

Try to apply a curve to the cyclic to make it less responsive around the middle position. Make use of trim (and check the different trim options in the special options).

For all the helicopters we have in dcs, the cyclic must be pulled back (about half an inch) for vertical pickup. (and a quarter inch to the left or right, depending on the the direction of your main rotor). Trim it in this position before trying to lift of. Your necessary corrections on the Stick (depending on length) should be mm rather than cm…..