Perfect stick for A-10C from Thrustmaster?

[Ben Sones]

I'm not sure what you mean, but the flash ad said "This is the end of the era of gimbals and potentiometers!" So apparently it doesn't use gimbals, or am I reading this wrong?

 

My guess is that it uses a single vertical spring for tension, much like the Saitek sticks, except that the spring is inside the case rather than exposed. The stick seems to be sitting on a ball joint, and I'll bet that the casing houses a large spring (which is probably why it is round) that gets compressed when you move the stick in any direction. Thus, no gimbals needed, and you'll get even tension in every direction.

 

A single large spring that is 3 or more inches in diameter could provide more than enough tension to hold up a large stick. I'll also note that Thrustmaster has not specifically said whether or not the stick will be made of metal. The info they've released says that the base is metal, but it says nothing about the stick, which leads me to think that it might be plastic.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Ben Sones

[Sokol1_br]

My guess is that it uses a single vertical spring for tension, much like the Saitek sticks, except that the spring is inside the case rather than exposed. The stick seems to be sitting on a ball joint, and I'll bet that the casing houses a large spring (which is probably why it is round) that gets compressed when you move the stick in any direction. Thus, no gimbals needed, and you'll get even tension in every direction.

 

Suncom (RIP) josyticks use this arrange for spring, without moving parts like cone used by Saitek.

 

Sokol1

[Feuerfalke]

Suncom (RIP) josyticks use this arrange for spring, without moving parts like cone used by Saitek.

 

Sokol1

 

Considering the bad reviews and reports about especially that moving part centering e.g. like on the x52, I doubt they will use a similar system. I rather expect they will use a single spring of some sort. You don't risk center play, uneven friction and loose gimbals, while wear-down and size of the base can be quite low compared to conventional methods. You can also easily adjust centering-strength in such a system.

 

Well, hopefully we'll find out, soon ;)

[Maximus_G]

Considering they've made Cougar, which is far from being flawless in its mechanics, i wouldn't be surprised to see new flaws of any kind in the new design.

[Feuerfalke]

Considering they've made Cougar, which is far from being flawless in its mechanics, i wouldn't be surprised to see new flaws of any kind in the new design.

 

Well, that again is a question of how you look at other people.

 

I rather expect them to learn from their errors than thinking they made it wrong before, so they will fail again.

 

 

Besides that, it's 9 years since the Cougar was released. Many things have changed in the meanwhile.

[159th_Viper]

 

I rather expect them to learn from their errors than thinking they made it wrong before, so they will fail again.

 

 

Besides that, it's 9 years since the Cougar was released. Many things have changed in the meanwhile.

 

A Voice of Objective Reason........:thumbup:

 

Cannot in all honesty reasonably assume that a design 9 years old will be replicated for a new product.......unless you're deep into Kitty-Bashing, that is :D

[Maximus_G]

Well, that again is a question of how you look at other people.

Not exactly, it's about products, not people.

 

I rather expect them to learn from their errors than thinking they made it wrong before, so they will fail again.

 

Besides that, it's 9 years since the Cougar was released. Many things have changed in the meanwhile.

9 years is a long life time for a joystick model. And what things have changed in Cougar mechanics during these years?..

 

I hope that explains why i'm having a really wide range of expectancy options :music_whistling:

[Feuerfalke]

Not exactly, it's about products, not people.

 

Curious. I always thought that people make joysticks?

 

9 years is a long life time for a joystick model. And what things have changed in Cougar mechanics during these years?..

 

I hope that explains why i'm having a really wide range of expectancy options :music_whistling:

 

A Joystick is not a car or piece of software, that you can upgrade or improve with minor changes over it's lifetime circle. Especially not, if you have to design and release other hardware as well.

Not even mentioning the difficulties Thrustmaster probably has seen with Guillemot.

[Maximus_G]

Curious. I always thought that people make joysticks?

Sure, and people are made of former stars. So, are we talking about supernovas here? :D

Let me put it another way: if you possess some TM insider information about how they work - alright, discuss that. But if you don't - just concentrate on joysticks.

 

A Joystick is not a car or piece of software, that you can upgrade or improve with minor changes over it's lifetime circle.

Well, if it's really so, i guess, Saitek X-52Pro is made by aliens! Alright, now we're discussing people here :megalol:

[Feuerfalke]

Sorry, if you want to rant, feel free to do so. Thought we were discussing facts.

 

What was improved in the hardware of the X52pro since it was released?

[Maximus_G]

Sorry, if you want to rant, feel free to do so. Thought we were discussing facts.

WHAT facts were you trying to discuss? Your opinions on other opinions? Expectations and... people, somehow?

Well, that again is a question of how you look at other people.

 

I rather expect them to learn from their errors than thinking they made it wrong before, so they will fail again.

 

Besides that, it's 9 years since the Cougar was released. Many things have changed in the meanwhile.

-----------------------

What was improved in the hardware of the X52pro since it was released?

I'm gettin bored. X52 Pro is an improved X52. Officially: "Saitek consulted the world’s leading flight-sim experts, reviewed every component and function of the acclaimed X52 and made more than a dozen significant improvements."

Besides, Saitek had improved its X52 before, at least once, changing sensors to SS496A, to get rid of the center dead zone.

Moreover, "green" and "red" iterations of MSSWFF2, and TMTGAB1 + 2 could've been mentioned as well, if we would be talking about facts here.

[coolts]

Well, let’s hope that with the release of the new HOTAS, Thrustmaster;

·

Learn from Cougar manufacturing mistakes, (misaligned switches, etc)

·

Carry through the rugged cougar build, (mine is ancient and still going strong with a little maintenance). You can’t beat metal though.

·

Maintain the unequalled software flexibility, (with whatever they replace Foxy with)

I must say though, that I am looking forward to this and, (unless they balls it up), will replace my Cougar as the throttle itself looks leagues ahead of any others.

like the majority I suspect, I don’t have the time or space for a full on pit project, so am not bothered about modding with extensions or whatever, but there are loads of mods for the Cougar so I am sure the new stick will deliver in this area too.

I am a little worried about the whole hall-effect thing as I haven’t had any experience with them. I like my stick to move! (Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but It’s a Friday and I am at work with a hangover!):cry:

[Pilotasso]

hall efect is da shizel dont worry about it. (its suposed to let the stick move or else it wouldn't work)

[coolts]

Cool. Call me old fashioned but if I push a stick I want it to move!

 

Remember the Sinclair ZX81 keyboard? (shudder)

[Feuerfalke]

WHAT facts were you trying to discuss? Your opinions on other opinions? Expectations and... people, somehow?

 

Actually, that is exactly, what I'm talking about: The TM Warthog has not been released, yet, but you keep arguing, that you don't see why TM should learn from mistakes made with the Cougar.

 

Funny enough, that on the other hand, you argue with the improvements made with the TM AB-series to underline your statement that TM is not able to learn from mistakes and release a new stick that eliminates the flaws of the predecessor. :clap_2:

 

It may have taken longer for the Cougar, but that has nothing to do with TM's inability to improve their hardware, as you precisely underlined, but with the fact that there was no market for a new high-end stick. ;)

[Avilator]

Cool. Call me old fashioned but if I push a stick I want it to move!

 

Remember the Sinclair ZX81 keyboard? (shudder)

With hall effect sensors, the stick has to move for them to pick up any signal. You might be thinking of force sensors, which need no motion to generate a signal. This new HOTAS has the former.

[sobek]

With hall effect sensors, the stick has to move for them to pick up any signal.

 

Complete Bogus. The underlying cause to the Hall effect ist the Lorentz Force, which is imposed upon any charged particle moving through an electromagnetic field. The Hall sensor needs a steady current to work though, but no movement. It is, in fact, not an induction based sensor.

 

Due to the steady current, there is a constant stream of charged electrons moving through the sensor and being deflected, thus causing a voltage perpendicular to the current. This voltage is the parameter that is used to measure the strenght of the magnetic field.

 

By moving the stick you actually manipulate the strength of the magnetic field in the sensor and therefore the hall voltage. The voltage is therefore deflection dependant, not speed dependant. The Hall sensor is a deflection sensor and not a speed or accelleration sensor. I rest my case.

[Maximus_G]

It may have taken longer for the Cougar, but that has nothing to do with TM's inability to improve their hardware, as you precisely underlined, but with the fact that there was no market for a new high-end stick. ;)

You've shown your amount of "joystick lifetime circle" knowledge, and now it's your joystick marketing time :doh: Of course there's a ton of reasons why the Cougar mechanics didn't get better.

 

Funny enough, that on the other hand, you argue with the improvements made with the TM AB-series to underline your statement that TM is not able to learn from mistakes and release a new stick that eliminates the flaws of the predecessor. :clap_2:

Do you really think i said that? And my next statement was just the opposite? Comparing these two messages, didn't you suspect that you got something WRONG there? :ermm:

 

I could simply ask you to put a prooflink here, a quote of me saying that "TM is not able to learn from mistakes". But since you obviously can't do that, i'll just leave you there and wish you to read more thoroughly from now on. It's a good practice.

 

I'll say what i said again:

I won't be surprised if it won't be flawless.

That is all. So let's finish this: i did NOT say "they will fail again" or "they can't learn", and besides, i do respect Cougar.

---

Edit: Medvedev likes TM too! :joystick:

http://news.kremlin.ru/media/events/photos/big/41d2f663cc00b47079f8.jpeg

(yep, that's Maddox beside him)

 

---

Sorry everybody for the inconvenience. At least that was a small emotional amusement :D

Edited April 30, 2010 by Maximus_G

[Avilator]

Complete Bogus. The underlying cause to the Hall effect ist the Lorentz Force, which is imposed upon any charged particle moving through an electromagnetic field. The Hall sensor needs a steady current to work though, but no movement. It is, in fact, not an induction based sensor.

 

Due to the steady current, there is a constant stream of charged electrons moving through the sensor and being deflected, thus causing a voltage perpendicular to the current. This voltage is the parameter that is used to measure the strenght of the magnetic field.

 

By moving the stick you actually manipulate the strength of the magnetic field in the sensor and therefore the hall voltage. The voltage is therefore deflection dependant, not speed dependant. The Hall sensor is a deflection sensor and not a speed or accelleration sensor. I rest my case.

 

I don't understand why you are calling my statement bogus? I never said the hall sensor was a speed or acceleration sensor.

[CyBerkut]

I don't understand why you are calling my statement bogus? I never said the hall sensor was a speed or acceleration sensor.

 

I think it stems from him focusing on how Hall Sensors function, whereas you appeared to be talking about the overall stick output.

 

Technically speaking, what he is talking about is correct. The hall sensor constantly outputs a signal (just as there is always an output from a potentiometer) in an energized stick. It is just that it is a steady output while the stick is not being moved/deflected.

 

"Context is everything." :)

[sobek]

I don't understand why you are calling my statement bogus? I never said the hall sensor was a speed or acceleration sensor.

 

I see how i might have misunderstood your post. However, technically speaking, it was not correct :) You might call it nickpicking but in engineering, proper expression makes all the difference.

 

Edit:

There's no place like 127.0.0.1

 

:lol:

Edited April 30, 2010 by sobek

[Mercury]

Medvedev likes TM too! :joystick:

http://news.kremlin.ru/media/events/photos/big/41d2f663cc00b47079f8.jpeg

(yep, that's Maddox beside him)

 

Medvedev must be a DCS fan too;).

 

He can't wait to get his hands on DCS:A-10C:joystick::megalol:

[Avilator]

I see how i might have misunderstood your post. However, technically speaking, it was not correct :) You might call it nickpicking but in engineering, proper expression makes all the difference.

I see my mistake now: I said it had to move to pick up any signal, but it is actually constantly outputting a signal that changes only when it moves.

 

Nitpick all you want, I'm an aerospace engineering major!!

[LawnDart]

Who said "the end of the era of gimbals and potentiometers" meant the stick doesn't move. ;)

 

The HW doesn't use a force sensor stick base.

[zakobi]

MemphisBelle posted this link DCS: A-10C and CH A-10 stick in the DCS-10C thread. A little competition? ;)

Edited May 2, 2010 by zakobi