Wolfala Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 First time poster. I am really trying to figure this one out - in what world did the BMP-3 have the AAA ability of a ZSU-23? Was this done for game play reasons rather then realistic representations of its capability? Or does the turret have the ability to zap targets doing 300 with its guns aimed straight up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 If the gun is indeed pointing straight up, it's a bug. Got a track or screenshot of this? - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kula66 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I have to agree for BMP-2s too ... they can track and hit a crossing targets with apparent ease - is this realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfala Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 Anytime you are in multi player - i could have a flight of 25s or A-10s - and we all get masafuk'd regardless of our approach angle. I should mention this is in Flaming Cliffs 2. I'm not aware of this in normal LOMAC or FC1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 They're just very good shot I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfala Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 They're just very good shot I guess. I guess i'll be using FRAPS tonight to check the turret traverse angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Yes and no ... there exist some APCs that are quite capable of AAA, though at the very least I don't think the BMP-2 is one of them. However, common drills for AAA include all your people with machineguns or anything automatic to point at a section of the sky you'll fly through, and fill it with lead just before you fly through it. This isn't simulated in BS/FC2 - there's a couple reasons, one relating to time based constraints, and on the other hand, with so much lead in the air I think you could kiss your framerates goodbye. For now, please pretend that this BMP and its troops have set such a trap as described above for you. Just a small suspension of disbelief. I have to agree for BMP-2s too ... they can track and hit a crossing targets with apparent ease - is this realistic? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tflash Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I do find this new BMP "feature" very challenging! It also forces you to stay high enough and look out of the window for tracers. I must confess I already lost more Su-25 to ground fire than there were lost during all Ossetia campaign on both sides! ;-) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfala Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 Yes and no ... there exist some APCs that are quite capable of AAA, though at the very least I don't think the BMP-2 is one of them. However, common drills for AAA include all your people with machineguns or anything automatic to point at a section of the sky you'll fly through, and fill it with lead just before you fly through it. This isn't simulated in BS/FC2 - there's a couple reasons, one relating to time based constraints, and on the other hand, with so much lead in the air I think you could kiss your framerates goodbye. For now, please pretend that this BMP and its troops have set such a trap as described above for you. Just a small suspension of disbelief. So like the much vaunted 4th hole, I have to squint and really believe there are 14 guys with 30mm auto cannon aiming at non-spec'd elevations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I don't know about the elevations. That should get fixed if its extreme :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 This is my biggest... and heck, pretty much -only- problem with FC 2.0 so far. BMP2's, 3's, everything aiming their 30mm's into the air and tossing fire at me. Bradleys do the same with their 25mm. Makes gun runs against BMP's exceedingly dangerous in the A10. To bypass, I just set the max_trg_alt to an absurdly low level in automaticgun.lua. Sadly, thats pretty much cheating... though the 12.7mm AA guns on their companion vehicles are at least a noticeable threat. They didnt do this in LOMAC, thats for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 They would do it to you in RL too, just in a different way. I'm sorry you're finding the targets to be just a little more than sitting ducks ;) Use higher attack altitudes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmell Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Use higher attack altitudes. Agreed, at first I was coming in way too low, and way to close, Ive started putting rounds on target alot higher, and alot further out. I also break off the attack sooner. I actually got the idea after watching some of the real life A-10 strafing runs posted around here and on youtube. I like getting shot at. :D Dont let the smell get to ya............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Yeah, I recall some footage of an A10 gunning. He just kind of yoyo'd above the convoy from what I saw. I'll try that and hopefully have more luck. Not like the BMP's take many hits to take out anyways :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 One good strafe and boom :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalevar Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) About BMP-2: The commander's 1PZ-3 sight is specifically designed for anti-aircraft operation and combined with the high maximum elevation of 74 degrees, it allows the 30 mm cannon to be used effectively against helicopters and slow flying aircraft. The turret traverse and elevation are powered and it can traverse 360 degrees in 10.28 seconds and elevate through 74 degrees in 12.33 seconds. BMP-3: same canon, 60 degrees of elevation, better targeting equipment, etc Edited April 8, 2010 by Stalevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 They seem to be able to acquire and engage my A10 which was flying at 5000 feet altitude during the A10 quick mission. The first BMP fired and scored hits on my fuselage and right wing, while the other two BMP's bursts missed. Is this working as designed? It seems that the BMP's and perhaps other armored vehicles are a bit too capable at acquiring moving fixed wing aircraft. If they are working as intended, how should I engage BMP2's with the A10? Are they now a Maverick-worthy target? I'd have thought 5000 feet would be a reasonably safe height to initiate a gun attack, but I was being hit before I could tip my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Try a CCRP cluster or iron bomb delivery from that altitude. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ven Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 They seem to be able to acquire and engage my A10 which was flying at 5000 feet altitude during the A10 quick mission. The first BMP fired and scored hits on my fuselage and right wing, while the other two BMP's bursts missed. Is this working as designed? It seems that the BMP's and perhaps other armored vehicles are a bit too capable at acquiring moving fixed wing aircraft. If they are working as intended, how should I engage BMP2's with the A10? Are they now a Maverick-worthy target? I'd have thought 5000 feet would be a reasonably safe height to initiate a gun attack, but I was being hit before I could tip my nose. Ironhand's tutorial on taking out ZSU-23 works on BMP's as well. Fire for about 1 second burst at 1.0km range and break off at 0.9km range. Works everytime for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lava Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 About BMP-2: The commander's 1PZ-3 sight is specifically designed for anti-aircraft operation and combined with the high maximum elevation of 74 degrees, it allows the 30 mm cannon to be used effectively against helicopters and slow flying aircraft. The turret traverse and elevation are powered and it can traverse 360 degrees in 10.28 seconds and elevate through 74 degrees in 12.33 seconds. BMP-3: same canon, 60 degrees of elevation, better targeting equipment, etc That is one agile turret! No wonder they keep toasting us when we fly in close & low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Yes, the rotation is pretty speedy. But their ability to acquire, track, and lead a moving fixed wing plane seems excessive from what I've read. Though granted, most of it seems to be taken from the Wikipedia article sadly :( I've found no information regarding any alternate AA abilities for the BMP2. The AA sight seems to be a plain optical sight with up to 4x magnification. Against a hovering or openly moving helicopter, it seems totally reasonable for the BMP's 30mm to be able to accurately deliver fire on its target once it detects it. But against a fixed-wing aircraft at even moderate height? Heck it may be possible to just change something in Sensors.lua and get more realistic behavior. Does anyone have an image taken looking through the actual sight? Or any experience in using the weapon system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBot Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Like GGTharos said, most ground troops would usually use a technique called Volume Fire, where every gun on the ground is shot at a fixed point in front of the target which the target will pass through. This means that with enough volume of fire even systems without air-tracking abilites have a chance to hit an aircraft. A very positive side effect is that a large amount of fire is put visibly in front of the enemy pilot, which greatly reduces his combat effectiveness. Considering FC2 does not feature the Volume Fire technique, I'd say that ground units with too good AA-tracking abilities is a good substitute. I think the fact that you can no more do low level bomb runs or close in cannon strafes on mechanized troops is spot on. I love it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBot Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Ironhand's tutorial on taking out ZSU-23 works on BMP's as well. Fire for about 1 second burst at 1.0km range and break off at 0.9km range. Works everytime for me. My rule of thumb in the A-10 is to open fire at 1.5 NM slant range and give a 100-200 rounds burst. If I am attacking MBT I might continue fire and brake off at 1 NM at latest. That's pretty safe against Shilkas and BMPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 That sounds like it'd work. I normally dont bother to engage MBT's with the cannon anyways, it excels at obliterating BMP's, BTR's, and trucks. Plus I generally open fire at 1-0.5 NM to assure accuracy. Suppose I'd better use the 1150 rounds to use at range, since they arent exactly in short supply :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 It is one of the changes that BS brings. If it has a gun, it will shoot at you. I think it's pretty cool. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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