Jump to content

Mi-28 vs. Ka-50 which is the better attack helicopter?


Recommended Posts

Ka-50 is old and for low level combat area - BMPs, Chechen hats ect.

Mi-28 especially N is helo with modern equipment much more better than Ka-50.

 

There are similar threads, you can see opinions.

Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D

ಠ_ಠ



Link to comment
Share on other sites

Technically both were developed during the same time period for the same task.

 

A failure to develop small and reliable night attack sensors lead to delays in their production.

 

The Ka-50 was announced as the winner of the competition and offered for export.

 

However, the Mi-28 was further developed and put into production for the army.

 

Having a dedicated WSO is probably highly desirable in a helicopter, if the helicopter isn't going to be used in large formations as a hovering anti-tank platform. However, it is also highly desirable to save weight.

 

It is likely that small numbers of Kamov helicopters (eg. Ka-52 for the special forces) and Mil helicopters will see service. Both are reasonably effective. However, the future of the combat helicopter is somewhat dubious after 2050.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The future of most types of equipment is dubious after 2050...

 

I don't pay all that much heed to such notions tho. We don't know what various technologies will cause to happen - the only thing that has been certain while science and development has been running it's course is that everyone who tried to predict anything turned out to be wrong. (People who have researched on it has come to the interesting conclusion though that people tend to overestimate short-term developments but grossly underestimate long-term developments - and most often miss entirely on the major inventions.)

 

"The bombers will always get through" causing land armies to be obsolete... Yeah...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mi-28 vs. Ka-50 which is the better attack helicopter (all things cosidered)?

 

It's easy as a pie :) The Winner is: Mi-28N

Especially with radar...moreover with 2 pilots - optimized for night operations

Less manoeuvrable then Ka-50 but more armoured...just like a flying tank :smilewink:

Atop the midnight tarmac,

a metal beast awaits.

To be flown below the radar,

to bring the enemy his fate.

 

HAVE A BANDIT DAY !

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Less maneuverable' is really meaningless to say here - the difference, if any, should be rather small.

 

I agree.

If Ka-50 gets 10 points then Mi-28 gets 9 points on a manoeuvrability scale. (IMMO) :)

 

I think Ka-50 has significant higher sideway speed coz short enough from nose to tail and because of the coaxial rotor.

 

 

So i don't think Mi-28N moves like a Cobra-W :)

AH-1Z moves better coz got 4 rotor blades.

Atop the midnight tarmac,

a metal beast awaits.

To be flown below the radar,

to bring the enemy his fate.

 

HAVE A BANDIT DAY !

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whats the better helicopter you ask. Thats easy. Airwolf. AIIIIIIR WOOOOOOLF........... LOL. ..............and K.I.T.T.'s the best car.........don't dispute it... DON"T YOU DISPUTE IT.

I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original.

"Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons.

"I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown.

 

 

These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2050 Is that helicopters in general or just these two?

 

Yes, you're right - I meant helicopters in general. I have a lot of suspicions, but I'm assuming that guided weapon systems will improve and fuel prices will go up. There will still still be room for low-speed or hovering craft, but I suspect that they will be smaller, shorter ranged and probably unmanned systems which travel to the combat area with the ground troops themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mi-28 vs. Ka-50 which is the better attack helicopter?

 

The ansfer is simple: AH-64. Especially that one from next (after A10) DCS module ;)

[sIGPIC]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6720/avatarpolishairforce.png[/sIGPIC]

system specs:

mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35DS4 rev 2.1, CPU: Intel C2D E8400@4GHz, GPU: Nvidia 8800GTS 512, RAM: Kingston HyperX 4x 1GB 1066MHz Dual Channel, HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 640 GB x2, sound: Realtek Azalia ALC889A + SB Audigy + Dolby Digital/DTS external encoder/tuner, display: Asus VW222U 22', case: Raidmax Smilodon, headphones: Sennheiser HD650, stick: Saitek Cyborg Evo, Track IR4 Pro + TrackClip Pro, O/S: Windows 7/Vista x64

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funkee, don't give people ideas. The DCS Module after A10C has not been decided upon. That it would be the AH-64 after A10 is an old rumor. AH-64 (A-model) is one of the aircraft on the "watchlist", but it's not set in stone.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The answer is simple: AH-64....

 

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

-Friedrich Nietzsche

 

:D

Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career?

Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell....

One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In all seriousnes this probe BS (and I don't mean BlackShark) is going to be the death of military aviation. I mean think of the weight you save. No pilot, no hud, no heavy gauges, no pilot to aircraft interface, no visual targeting system, no making room for the pilot. They can be made much more streamline, faster, and do crazy manuevers since g forces won't effect the pilot. They can be made with a much smaller radar signature. Yes in 50 years our kids will be playing DCS Probe, cept they probably really will be killing people.

I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original.

"Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons.

"I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown.

 

 

These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

-Friedrich Nietzsche

 

:D

 

"Nietzsche was a bum."

-Bucic

 

:D

 

Back on topic. Why are you all surprised that helicopters has no future? At least in the form and with lack of equipement we have today. Even today helicopters are sitting ducks for manpads (because they are passive, obviously). You go up on your roof with your pipe, wait for the heli to overfly, take a smoke, sip a beer, enjoy the sun... All that, because the helicopter will be dead anyway. No hurry. Air force won't provide them safety and land forces won't either. All the latter can do is to search for manpads through houses.

 

Re manpads single seat helicopter design is so crippling that I would not like to be in a Ka-50 pilot's skin. In rear hemisphere Ka-50 is as sitting duck as Mi-24 or Mi-28. In forward hemisphere it is worse than both. Much worse.

 

Two ending thoughts:

 

Discussing the combat capabilities of those helicopters when employed in a modern battlefield (or any better than Taliban) is pointless. Sitting duck with a gun is still a sitting duck.

 

Proper warning and integrated count. systems come slowly into service but there always will be the problem that the cost of designing, buying and putting into service a defensive system against a certain anti-helo weapon will always be 10 times higher than the same process for the wapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DCS Module after A10C has not been decided upon. That it would be the AH-64 after A10 is an old rumor. AH-64 (A-model) is one of the aircraft on the "watchlist", but it's not set in stone.

 

Often in rumors are grains of truth...

Apache would be very nice :D "A" version is old however it still can do many things... but maybe... someday will be "D" eeh dreams ^^

Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D

ಠ_ಠ



Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whats the better helicopter you ask. Thats easy. Airwolf. AIIIIIIR WOOOOOOLF........... LOL. ..............and K.I.T.T.'s the best car.........don't dispute it... DON"T YOU DISPUTE IT.

 

If you're going fictional, Optimus Prime is the best "auto" he's no car, but he makes TRUCKS SUPER cool ;):smartass:

 

If I had the choice to go into battle, I'd take the Mi-28...air show I'd take the KA-50 :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bucic, a small note regarding passive-seeker MANPADs: they can be detected by modern systems. I don't know for sure whether there are any attack helicopters that carry those systems operationally right now, but I know there's such a system being implemented on the A10C. (I don't know if DCS:A10C will have it, though, before anyone asks. I don't know if it's being implemented on all A10C's either.) Basically it sees the energy generated by the rocket motor/exhaust plume and alerts the pilot that there's a missile threat.

 

Boberro, yeah, there are grains of truth to the speculation - for example there have been some WIP shots of some cockpits for various aircraft shown somewhere on the forum. They're old though and I don't think we should assume too much about them. I'd love an Apache myself, but then again I'd be prepared to accept almost anything as long as it's DCS quality - for example my own pet AT-802U. Such a beauty! :D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bucic, a small note regarding passive-seeker MANPADs: they can be detected by modern systems. I don't know for sure whether there are any attack helicopters that carry those systems operationally right now, but I know there's such a system being implemented on the A10C. (I don't know if DCS:A10C will have it, though, before anyone asks. I don't know if it's being implemented on all A10C's either.) Basically it sees the energy generated by the rocket motor/exhaust plume and alerts the pilot that there's a missile threat.

Actually I mentioned that some systems are on the way. An that's exactly my point. Optimistic scenario - in 5 years on some American helis, shortly after on some western Helis, in poorer countries in 10 years or never. Even at the peak number of such systems in service only small percentage of helis operating in warzones will have such a system onboard. My point again - defensive system response more than a decade after appearance of the weapons they respond to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not quite - the previous "response" focused on simply denying the shot, for example through pre-emptive flare launch to upset potential seekers, speed (there's a nice set of videos on youtube showing an american exercise where they use an Mi-24 in hit-n-run tactics at low altitude).

 

Though if you mean a response in the same sense as an RWR is for actives and semiactives, then yeah, agreed. But I would assume that those units that are available would be distributed to those squadrons that are seen as having a need for it. On the red side, so to speak, it's harder to know what they actually have and how proliferated it is. For example, I was a bit surprised at how quickly they turned up some active anti-missile defenses for use on MBT's. (Though that just may have been me focusing too much on aircraft and too little on ground forces. :P )

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me refer to Georgia war video footages. I haven't seen any low flying there (over the cities) nor pre-emptive use of flares. Either this is important or I saw some helicopters flying on an known to be clear area :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm not 100% on the east-bloc stuff. I do recall that the mentioned training video didn't appear to have flare deployment but rather solely rely on simply being too fast in moving from terrain masking - basically, the MANPAD operators in training there, and I have a friend that was a MANPAD operator in the US Army though he is now at a desk job, were only given a 5-6 second window in which to acquire, lock and shoot the target. Highly dependent on the type of terrain though, obviously. I'd expect this to be a lot more difficult for the aircrew to achieve in urban areas since the helpful trees are replaced with rooftops that can serve as ideal launch pads.

 

I've seen american and israeli units perform pre-emptive flare deployment though.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...