Pilotasso Posted May 9, 2010 Posted May 9, 2010 Just noticed the F-15 radar started to give hard lock warning when in HOJ mode. Is this on purpose or we got another broken thing after fixing other bugs? .
VTJS17_Fire Posted May 9, 2010 Posted May 9, 2010 Just noticed the F-15 radar started to give hard lock warning when in HOJ mode. This is actuall since FC 2.0. It also goes into STT sometimes when you have TWS selected and you lock a target up under 20 miles. I have had this happen a few times. This happens, if the target has ECM on but you are in/ under burn-through range. I think, TWS has not enough power for the burn through lock, so the radar swichtes in STT. New since FC 2.0, too. kind regards, fire Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
VTJS17_Fire Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 didn't they move burn-through range back? In 1.12 it use to be 12nm now I don't know what it is. They move the range out. About 12nm in FC 1.12, now about 25nm for smaller fighter-ECMs and i think, 12nm for powerfull ECM by bombers. But the TWS-mode don't have the power like the RWS/STT mode. That's why you lost a lock on a target, which maneuver hard, with TWS earlier as with STT. Same for burn-through power (lock) ... i think. kind regards, fire Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
kingneptune117 Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 what is hard lock? "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci Intel i7-4790k | Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo heat sink | Thermaltake Core V71 case | 750W EVGA PSU | 8gb G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 RAM | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 LGA 1150 motherboard | Samsung SSD | ASUS STRIX GTX 970 | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | TIR 5 | Razer Deathadder | Corsair K70
Breakshot Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Just noticed the F-15 radar started to give hard lock warning when in HOJ mode. Is this on purpose or we got another broken thing after fixing other bugs? Im assuming the lock warning also happens in TWS? Sounds like a good feature to me, if true... :P Will do some testing on this later... Tim "Breakshot" Mytrofanov | C.O. of 51 ПВО / 100 КИАП Regiments | twitch.tv/51breakshot
71st_Mastiff Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 No thats always been there you just havent got'en close enough for it to kick in..:joystick: Just noticed the F-15 radar started to give hard lock warning when in HOJ mode. Is this on purpose or we got another broken thing after fixing other bugs? "any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back", W Forbes. "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts", "He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," Winston Churchill. MSI z690 MPG DDR4 || i9-14900k|| ddr4-128gb PC3200 |zotac RTX 5080|Game max 1300w|Win11| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2||MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Asus||
The Beast Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Im assuming the lock warning also happens in TWS? Sounds like a good feature to me, if true... :P Will do some testing on this later... Nope thats the beauty of TEWS no warning for the enemy till the 120 goes active!
SFJackBauer Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Nope thats the beauty of TEWS no warning for the enemy till the 120 goes active! Just a small correction - the beauty of TWS. TEWS is the radar warning receiver for the F-15.
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) This is actuall since FC 2.0. This happens, if the target has ECM on but you are in/ under burn-through range. I think, TWS has not enough power for the burn through lock, so the radar swichtes in STT. New since FC 2.0, too. kind regards, fire you didnt get it, Im not talking about STT lock after burn through. Im talking about full lock warning when designating a strobe, no matter the range the target is, 25 or 160 miles away. And was subject for patche fixes in previous versions of lockon. Vanilla FC2.0 included. Im assuming the lock warning also happens in TWS? Sounds like a good feature to me, if true... :P Will do some testing on this later... No you missunderstood, I put emphasis again, lock warning when in HOJ mode, regardless what mode you previouly had, TWS or RWS. Its making MP an ECM jungle. People are making ECM part of the start up procedure, not to mention more friendly kills. I'm just wondering if this was made a feature and why (because some ED staff mentioned on previous patches F-15 should give no lock warning in this mode and made this part of bugs to be corrected), or if it got broken again while clearing other bugs. Edited May 10, 2010 by Pilotasso .
RvEYoda Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I'm just wondering if this was made a feature and why (because some ED staff mentioned on previous patches F-15 should give no lock warning in this mode and made this part of bugs to be corrected), or if it got broken again while clearing other bugs. My guess is that it is a sideffect of some other fix. Not entirely sure. Btw with the Fc2 patch installed it IS possible to bug a target tws even though he has ECM on as long as you have burnthough, unlike both std 2.0 and 1.12 :) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 I noticed that, but we are talking about 2 different things here. .
59th_Buncsi Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Maybe i experienced, if you didnt wrote about this, then sorry :) If a target isnt heading on you, only around, or beam, or heading home, but use ECM, you will get a stable target in the ECM, if he is in the burn out range, but if you lock him, that is like you lock an ECM. The only advantage is if you broke lock, you know the range, and if the target is already should be in engage, you can shoot your AMRAAMS. I never fly in F-15, but i think its true for all aircrafts :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) Hard to decrypt your post here, but if I understand correctly having a stable lock on a retreating target just because hes also jamming means hes above 25 miles and it cant be reachable anyway, (infact you know nothing about what your locked on) which is useless. This is hardly an excuse for "I give, I take away" compromise philosofy you seem to be hinting at when fixing bugs, or else we are forever stuck with arcade features. Edited May 10, 2010 by Pilotasso .
Nate--IRL-- Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Just curious but why wouldn't this apply to the Russian A/C too? Shouldn't they also be able to Silently Lock a jamming target? Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) Russian radars AFAIK as stated by ED staff referring to manuals employ a different method for ECCM than eagles. F-15's do ECCM by software as much as frequency hoping (not modeled) to bypass the frequency of the jammer and/or estimate target position based on ELINT (based on jammer signal strength, method of jamming etc), russian radars with a weaker signal processor do it via frequency swiching to guidance mode, thus giving lock warning...aarhgh :S sounds bad, maybe someone else can explain better. Edited May 10, 2010 by Pilotasso .
GGTharos Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 No, they shouldn't. Believe it or not, the F-15 has a lot more passive sensing/engagement capability than the Russian birds ever did when it comes to the radar and TEWS. When it comes to ECCM and jamming though, nothing really works as (some of us assume) it ought. You should pretty much never see a strobe from a fighter until you try to lock it, which would give you the warning, and then the jammer would fire up to break the lock. This also means TWS would not trigger your jammer. Just curious but why wouldn't this apply to the Russian A/C too? Shouldn't they also be able to Silently Lock a jamming target? Nate [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Breakshot Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 If it is indeed a bug and not an implementation... then there is a possibility it could be related to EOS giving a lock warning bug, in rear aspect beyond 25km it sometimes gives a constant lock, even though u are clearly picking up an IR contact, and having an IR missile selected... although it seems to only happen the 'first' time you do it after loading into a fresh mission... although i do remember similar things happening even back in 1.12, so it could just be net related... So the key question here is, does this F15 HOJ lock thing happen 100% of the time? Tim "Breakshot" Mytrofanov | C.O. of 51 ПВО / 100 КИАП Regiments | twitch.tv/51breakshot
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 It seems a constant thing as soon as ECM is emmiting. They are either F-15's or realy fast SA-15 batteries :D .
RvEYoda Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 If it is indeed a bug and not an implementation... then there is a possibility it could be related to EOS giving a lock warning bug, in rear aspect beyond 25km it sometimes gives a constant lock, even though u are clearly picking up an IR contact, and having an IR missile selected... although it seems to only happen the 'first' time you do it after loading into a fresh mission... although i do remember similar things happening even back in 1.12, so it could just be net related... So the key question here is, does this F15 HOJ lock thing happen 100% of the time? When EOS exceeds a certain range it uses radar for rangefinding, instead of a laser. This is how the real system operates. Whether this ingame result was the intention of the developers or a sideffect of something else I do not know. Normally lasers cannot do much more than 10 km under normal conditions. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Sov13t Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I believe when EOS is the selected primary channel, radar can still be secondary channel and as such provide any information EOS does not have. Now, it doesn't have to lock to provide range finding it can be in scan mode... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 51st PVO Regiment | Forum | Statistics DCS: MiG-21Bis
104th_Crunch Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 It seems a constant thing as soon as ECM is emmiting. They are either F-15's or realy fast SA-15 batteries :D I know you are joking, but many people miss this. Air contacts have a chevron (upside down V) over air contacts in the TEWS. That is how you tell if it is a F-15 or SA-15.
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