is no curve or deadzone realistic for the f-15?

[kingneptune117]

Title says it all

[galagamo]

If you set the stick XY axis to sliders and 0DZ you'll notice the stick in the cockpit mimicks your Stick exactly like a 1:1 ratio this is with an X-52 though.

I think the curves are unrealistic as they dampen your inputs outside of the game before the input reaches the aircraft some folks will adjust these settings according to they're own preference I happen to think it's unrealistic This is all just observation I could be wrong

 

forgive the lack of puntuation I'm on a mobile:)

[winz]

If you set the stick XY axis to sliders and 0DZ you'll notice the stick in the cockpit mimicks your Stick exactly like a 1:1 ratio this is with an X-52 though.

But this doesn't imply that the response of control surfaces is the same in FC than in RL for the same amount of stick pressure.

[Svend_Dellepude]

But this doesn't imply that the response of control surfaces is the same in FC than in RL for the same amount of stick pressure.

 

 

Exactly!

And I sure hope not, otherwise it must be hell flying these birds.

Plus, what you haven't got is the resistance of the FCS, thats where the curves and DZ come in handy to help you control the aircraft and make precise adjustments.

The controller setup is there for a reason.

Speaking of RL, there are many things in this game which is not true to RL so don't worry 'bout the curves and deadzone, thats the least of it.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Svend_Dellepude

[galagamo]

True. Like I said it comes down to preference I prefere sliders to axis once I got used to it the PIO went away and I have more precise controll. That split second it takes your AC to respond due to the curve could cost your@ss so I also consider it a slight advantage

[Frazer]

Only when you have a long stick like found in the real aircraft the linear curves are correct. With a long stick you have much more control compared with the (usually) short sticks we use.

 

Besides that the stick in a real jet is much heavier, and increased pressure with speed.

 

The real jet will feel good, just experiment with the curves till you found the settings you like.

[Scooternutz]

Only when you have a long stick like found in the real aircraft the linear curves are correct. With a long stick you have much more control compared with the (usually) short sticks we use.

 

Besides that the stick in a real jet is much heavier, and increased pressure with speed.

 

The real jet will feel good, just experiment with the curves till you found the settings you like.

 

You are right on Frazer. We must have the curve settings to dampen the shorter control sticks. I am going to modify my Cougar to a center style helo cyclic and I know that I will have a level of control I have not had before. Problem is finding a fitting that will mate with the cougar. It is metric and in the States all I can find is standard fittings.

 

Good post. I like this stuff!

[Sov13t]

Only when you have a long stick like found in the real aircraft the linear curves are correct. With a long stick you have much more control compared with the (usually) short sticks we use.

 

Besides that the stick in a real jet is much heavier, and increased pressure with speed.

 

The real jet will feel good, just experiment with the curves till you found the settings you like.

 

If it isn't a secret ;)

 

What do you guys in Berkuts prefer or come to a consensus on? Since precision is key for what you guys do.

[Frazer]

If it isn't a secret ;)

 

What do you guys in Berkuts prefer or come to a consensus on? Since precision is key for what you guys do.

 

We are still experimenting to find perfect curves for FC2 (takes time). Right now we use the following.

 

Pitch: 25% curve

Roll: 23% curve + 5% deadzone

Rudder: 23% curve + 5% deadzone

 

Thing is to find a good balance between stability around stick center, and stability in pulled flight.

 

To find your best balanced curves keep this in mind:

More curve = more stability around center

Less curve = more stability when pulling

 

A good way to test is to fly very slow (test pull sensitivity), and very fast (test center sensitivity).

[GGTharos]

The other thing that's missing from the F-15's flight system is that it is tuned that for any airspeed you get the same amount of g out of the same amount of deflection (unless you're obviously flying so slow that you cannot reach that g).

[supercool]

real aircraft has very precise mechanism, and pilot feels the movement of aircraft, so deadzone or curve is not needed. but in PC game, deadzone or curve are useful.

[mikoyan]

We are also missing the ruder stick interconnection to roll at high AOA. Unfortunately the sim doesn't reproduce lots of staff and we don't have a stick that mimics the forces on the real jet.

For example the mig-29 has a stick pusher, to reproduce that we would have to program a force feedback joystick and make it work according to what the airplane is doing.

[Vekkinho]

We are also missing the ruder stick interconnection to roll at high AOA. Unfortunately the sim doesn't reproduce lots of staff and we don't have a stick that mimics the forces on the real jet.

For example the mig-29 has a stick pusher, to reproduce that we would have to program a force feedback joystick and make it work according to what the airplane is doing.

 

Whadda you mean stick pusher?!

You mean the AoA physical limiter that works if AoA too high by centering all the +G deflection you've got but can be overriden. You can go Cobra when you do so...

Edited June 11, 2010 by Vekkinho

[kingneptune117]

The other thing that's missing from the F-15's flight system is that it is tuned that for any airspeed you get the same amount of g out of the same amount of deflection (unless you're obviously flying so slow that you cannot reach that g).

 

This is a very good point. I never knew this until I had watched a video where a hornet driver was being interviewed, and he demonstrated the different amount of G for different amount of stick deflection. Can this be simulated?

[Wolf Rider]

Sorry but I don't understand the references to "stick forces"...

 

don't warbird jets (flybywire) have hydraulic control surface control? :book: not a cable system like WWII prop fighters and perhaps some civilian prop aircraft?

 

 

What I'm getting at is, if the control surfaces are moved by hydaulics controlled by the flight computer, there (I would have thought) wouldn't be any feedback, as such, from the control surace to the stick. :joystick: I would have thought also, it wouldn't be a matter of pushing the stick harder, but rather, just moving the stick further... with 0 ~ 100% of stick travel = 0 ~ 100% of control surface travel, in all directions.

 

 

 

(similar but slightly different to cherry picker control levers... sorta)

Edited June 12, 2010 by Wolf Rider

[winz]

Opinions welcome, i hope my point is understandable. (What real craft out there (any) has curves?)

According to GGTharos F15 has, by definition, a 'curve' a very complex and changing with speed and altitude, because deflection on stick equals g you wanna pull. The amount of control surface deflection is based on speed and altitude. And the relationship between control surface deflection and Gs is not linear.

[mikoyan]

Whadda you mean stick pusher?!

You mean the AoA physical limiter that works if AoA too high by centering all the +G deflection you've got but can be overriden. You can go Cobra when you do so...

 

On the mig manual says that there is a limiter, when you reach 26 degrees (mig-29 a?) of AOA or more the stick has a kicker or pusher that moves the stick down a bit and reduces your AOA 5 degrees, this can be overridden by pulling more, but you risk getting into a departure and a wing rock (this seriously is missing in lock on :cry:) how drastic is the wing rock; I'm not sure, since it looks like it can reach a seriously high alpha wile doing a cobra without going into a wing rock. It also says that it is not advised to pull too hard while going supersonic because you can break the airplane. The mig-29 flight control is simmilar to the eagle with he exemption of the auto trim of the eagle and the smoothness described by some pilots.

 

so... we need advanced flight model and a joystick company to come up with a programable force feedback stick that can cense what the airplane is doing in the sim and capable to interact with than information to provide stick forces.:cry:

[mikoyan]

Sorry but I don't understand the references to "stick forces"...

 

don't warbird jets (flybywire) have hydraulic control surface control? :book: not a cable system like WWII prop fighters and perhaps some civilian prop aircraft?

 

 

What I'm getting at is, if the control surfaces are moved by hydaulics controlled by the flight computer, there (I would have thought) wouldn't be any feedback, as such, from the control surace to the stick. :joystick: I would have thought also, it wouldn't be a matter of pushing the stick harder, but rather, just moving the stick further... with 0 ~ 100% of stick travel = 0 ~ 100% of control surface travel, in all directions.

 

 

 

(similar but slightly different to cherry picker control levers... sorta)

 

I'm not an expert but what I know is that in some jets you will need to apply more force to the stick (some of them use 20 pounds) to reach certain amount of gs and aoa at a given time (very complex stuff that is why fly by wire programs have millions of lines) I guess the exemption to this is the the f-16 that doesn't reproduce stick forces but censes how much pressure you apply to the stick which barely moves.

[Svend_Dellepude]

The other thing that's missing from the F-15's flight system is that it is tuned that for any airspeed you get the same amount of g out of the same amount of deflection (unless you're obviously flying so slow that you cannot reach that g).

 

This is a brilliant system and it realy makes sense. This would be a very competent way of flying and fighting. I have a FSSB modded Cougar and handling would just be so much easier keeping within corner speed and hold of a blackout.

Even though the FSSB is very precise I still have to use deadzone and curves, if not the bird is all over the place. Way to jumpy.

One to one link to the controlsurfaces makes no sense anymore. :noexpression: