HOTAS vs. TrackIR

[TKMR]

Which is more important? I can only get one or the other.

 

I've been seriously wanting TrackIR for awhile for some other games as well (specifcally ARMA2, BF2, FSX).

 

But a HOTAS would be really really nice for the extra buttons, plus my throttle slider right now is WAY too sensitive (no way I can really fix that though).

 

What are your thoughts?

[Mercury]

If you already have a HOTAS (even an old and irritating one) it would be better to buy TrackIR. Your sim experience goes to a complete new level you won't be bothered to such a degree by your HOTAS. Later if you decide to buy a HOTAS go for the A-10 HOTAS. It will be probably the best in the market once its released.

[leafer]

If you already have a HOTAS (even an old and irritating one) it would be better to buy TrackIR. Your sim experience goes to a complete new level you won't be bothered to such a degree by your HOTAS. Later if you decide to buy a HOTAS go for the A-10 HOTAS. It will be probably the best in the market once its released.

 

+10

[Python]

I wanted trackir so much, but when i finally got it i was somewhat dissapointed and rarely use it. It loses its allignment all the time and leaves you facing backwards until you refresh it with F12, not ideal when your trying to fly close formation in an F-16 on fsx! iv tried placing the sensor in various places etc, different settings and what not but same problem time and time again. While it works its great though, adds a whole new level of realism.

[Mugenjin]

Did you install the latest TIR software python?

Even when I take off my headset for a while, so the camera can't see the diodes at all, the alignment is still remembered after putting it back on.

 

oh btw TrackIR > HOTAS.

[Python]

Did you install the latest TIR software python?

Even when I take off my headset for a while, so the camera can't see the diodes at all, the alignment is still remembered after putting it back on.

 

oh btw TrackIR > HOTAS.

 

Hey, yes i have the latest vista 64 compatible driver, have even reinstalled it, very annoying, perhaps il email natural point if this isn't a common problem... If it was stable i would recommend it all day long as i say, when it works its brilliant.

[DTWD]

Are you running the Pro addon or the standard reflectors?

 

Is there any light polution?

[Mercury]

Hey, yes i have the latest vista 64 compatible driver, have even reinstalled it, very annoying, perhaps il email natural point if this isn't a common problem... If it was stable i would recommend it all day long as i say, when it works its brilliant.

 

If you are using the standard trackvector

, then you need to reduce lighting in TrackIR's POV (point of view), since those reflectors are recognized by TIR as a light source. If there is another light source in the background TIR won't work properly.

 

You can turn on the lights or even open the windows if its daytime but the light source should not be in TIRs POV.

 

If you are using this then its a whole different story since this device has its own light source thus overwriting any other light source of the background. Correct me if I'm wrong plssss:huh:.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Mercury: you are correct. I'm using a standard trackvector at the moment, but buying a pro version soon to get rid of the background clutter.

[Python]

I dont use the pro as i never wear headphones, i believe im right in thinking there is no other way to mount them? also, there is no light polution in my room, i even close the curtains etc. I shal have another play around later and contact natural point if the problem persists. Thank you for the help though, i may just have a dodgey unit? In which case... TKMR, dont be put off by me, Track ir will improve your sim experience more than changing your flight stick.

[ZaltysZ]

also, there is no light polution in my room, i even close the curtains etc.

 

Visible light isn't a problem, but heat sources are. You can check what your TrackIR sees in software (Camera view). If it sees more than 3 dots, you have unwanted IR source.

 

You can use the same Camera view to check how reflectors are seen at different angles of your head. If at certain angle TrackIR sees less than 3 dots, it looses tracking, so you need to adjust position and distance of TrackIR unit or position of your cap.

 

Ultimately, you can try making your own reflector set by using some small balls wrapped in reflective tape. Original reflector set has disadvantage, because it has reflective area only at front and it can't reflect much once you turn your head away.

[Insanatrix]

TIR interprets any light source on the Infrared spectrum, Meaning sun light and regular house lamps. The only thing you can do with the pro clip is increase the filter for IR since it uses bright LED's. That hat thing has to reflect the light from the actual TIR unit. If you have a window behind you your kind of SOL unless you stuff a blanket over it or get some blackout blinds for it.

 

So basicly any heat or light source that produces heat is going to screw up your TIR.

[DTWD]

Precisly,

 

I didn't have any direct light into the room I use with TIR but I noticed (using that camera view) I was getting a wicked bloom/glow off the door to the room. Fixed that and not had an issue since.

 

That said though the issue didn't cause drift, but actually stopped the TIR interprating my movements at all.

[CyBerkut]

I dont use the pro as i never wear headphones, i believe im right in thinking there is no other way to mount them?

 

You could mount a TrackClip Pro upon a microphone-only headset. That would let you keep using your speakers for sound, if that happens to be a priority for you. LabTec makes one that will work.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=875487&postcount=11

[Sarge55]

For the OP - Just to make it unanimous I would also recommend the TIR over upgrading your existing stick (unless it is completely FUBAR'd) The immersion is great.

 

Note - some people report getting nauseous (sp?) using TIR at first so if you are prone to motion sickness you may have to work through that at first.

[Zenra]

<...snip...>

 

Note - some people report getting nauseous (sp?) using TIR at first so if you are prone to motion sickness you may have to work through that at first.

Which says something about the immersion level you get with TIR...

[VMFA117_Poko]

I can't imagine my flying without TIR anymore. I would rather take cheap joystick and TIR if I'd be you. TrackIR is something that you have to learn how to use it first which can be hard if you use small monitor. I remember my first trying of TIR - I had a real bad headake. But It took me only two days getting used to it.

[fangav]

Did you see the thread about a sim flight expo i think it was where they had a bad light issue in the venue.They solved it by putting a polystyrene cup over the tir unit. I'll try and dig it out.

 

 

 

I dont use the pro as i never wear headphones, i believe im right in thinking there is no other way to mount them? also, there is no light polution in my room, i even close the curtains etc. I shal have another play around later and contact natural point if the problem persists. Thank you for the help though, i may just have a dodgey unit? In which case... TKMR, dont be put off by me, Track ir will improve your sim experience more than changing your flight stick.

[bumfire]

If you are using the standard trackvector

, then you need to reduce lighting in TrackIR's POV (point of view), since those reflectors are recognized by TIR as a light source. If there is another light source in the background TIR won't work properly.

 

You can turn on the lights or even open the windows if its daytime but the light source should not be in TIRs POV.

 

If you are using this then its a whole different story since this device has its own light source thus overwriting any other light source of the background. Correct me if I'm wrong plssss:huh:.

 

 

They come in red and white ????

 

I only ever seen black.

 

To the OP, if you have a HOTAS, get tir, if you havent got a hotas get a hotas.

 

TIR is magic, seriously, its like a totally new game when you start flying with tir, but dont fly with a window to your back, as the tir will go nuts on sunny days even with the curtains closed.

 

Also, to answer pythons problems, instead of having to push f12 constantly to recentre the view, do what everyone else does, setup a button on your joystick to do it, so that it becomes natural, even then if you setup your tir correctly and you dont move your body and head from the centre of your monitor, i.e you sit in roughly the same position when playing you should rarely need to push the recentre button unless of course you move your body off centre of your previous centred position or if their is backlighting affecting the tir unit which then basically steals the tir from you and when it gives it back it can sometimes be off centre.

 

Although I find I have to push it more in blackshark than I do in lockon, probably cuz lockon has the full 6dof and lockon hasnt.

Edited July 21, 2010 by bumfire

[TKMR]

Seeing extra heat sources may be a problem for me, as there is a window to my back. =( Not really any way to remedy that.

 

Currently I have a Logitech Extreme3D Pro, which is a great joystick for, say, Flight Simulator, but I find that in DCS I bump the throttle a lot, which really screws me up. I also find that there just aren't enough buttons in a natural place for me.

 

On the other hand however, I would REALLY like to have a more natural way to look around the cockpit than the HAT switch, then I could use the HAT for the Shkval without holding alt. Will the window to my back totally screw up TrackIR to the point that it would just be better for me to grab a HOTAS?

 

Also, I have Blackout blinds which are down during the day, but I'm pretty sure the sun heats them up, especially since it's beating on them all day.

Edited July 22, 2010 by TKMR

[Booger]

I'll be the odd man out and say invest your bones in a good HOTAS.

 

Playing with a crappy stick is irritating as sin and heaven knows that when you get used to something for a long time, it's a pain in the ass to introduce a big change. Get the HOTAS out of the way.

 

Yes TrackIR IS simply awesomesauce...but you don't HAVE to use TrackIR. There are alternates (in one case, free) that you can use until you have another stash of cash.

[bumfire]

Seeing extra heat sources may be a problem for me, as there is a window to my back. =( Not really any way to remedy that.

 

Currently I have a Logitech Extreme3D Pro, which is a great joystick for, say, Flight Simulator, but I find that in DCS I bump the throttle a lot, which really screws me up. I also find that there just aren't enough buttons in a natural place for me.

 

On the other hand however, I would REALLY like to have a more natural way to look around the cockpit than the HAT switch, then I could use the HAT for the Shkval without holding alt. Will the window to my back totally screw up TrackIR to the point that it would just be better for me to grab a HOTAS?

 

Also, I have Blackout blinds which are down during the day, but I'm pretty sure the sun heats them up, especially since it's beating on them all day.

 

I have a window at my back and its the sunniest window of the whole house and I gave up trying to play when its sunny, even with curtains closed as the tir unit picks up all the IR coming through the curtain fabric.

 

I use the track clip pro which is better than the normal tir hat thingy and it still gets raped by the sun, if I really want to fly on a sunny day I close curtains and clip a tartan rug to the curtain rail to give me that extra sheet to blcok the sun, it works 95% of the time but sometimes it will still steal the tir from me, but a quick re-adjustment of the tir unit usually fixes it if I have the tartan sheet hooked up :)

 

But, here is the thing, you havent really experienced flight because your joystick really is no good, seriously, I have a few sticks and until I got my first hotas years ago I didnt know what I was missing.

 

So since you have a logitech 3d stick, then I would advise against the TIR and I would advise you to buy a decent HOTAS setup first, as that is the most critical part of your setup, the tir can come later and with your hotas you have hat switches so you will get better view control than what you have now with your 3d stick, due to the hats and the mouse stick.

 

HOTAS should ideally come first and tir second in my opinion.

 

better way to look around the cockpit, the x52 and above and some other hotas sticks have a mouse control stick on the throttle, use that and its just like using your mouse to look around the cockpit, faster than a hat switch and better in my opinion when cockpit mouse = true is enabled, that should cover you til say xmas time when you might be able to get tir ?

Edited July 22, 2010 by bumfire

[Mercury]

I'll be the odd man out and say invest your bones in a good HOTAS.

 

Playing with a crappy stick is irritating as sin and heaven knows that when you get used to something for a long time, it's a pain in the ass to introduce a big change. Get the HOTAS out of the way.

 

Yes TrackIR IS simply awesomesauce...but you don't HAVE to use TrackIR. There are alternates (in one case, free) that you can use until you have another stash of cash.

 

+1:thumbup: There's a free tracking software around that you can use with your webcam as well.

[Scudslaker]

in my eyes you can not compare freetrack utility with Track Ir cause Freetrack does not provide the smooth and fast performance!)

 

i return to statd: go get Tir and then later the WARTHOG HOtas, as you ll have a dual throttle then and not only those standard single engine throttle like COUGAR, X52 or CH solution offer.

[Booger]

in my eyes you can not compare freetrack utility with Track Ir cause Freetrack does not provide the smooth and fast performance!)

 

The same could be said about his current junk controller. Suggesting he gets a utility to look around (only) over something that will vastly improve not only his piloting ability, but cockpit manipulation too is putting the carriage before the horse. In this sense, I agree with Bumfire...

 

HOTAS should ideally come first and tir second in my opinion.

If he gets a good HOTAS as well as an alternate (free/cheap) tracking system, he gets both his choices at the same time.