HOTAS vs. TrackIR

[shu77]

You can always buy a cheap second joystick to get the extra buttons and a throttle, I used one up until recently. Personally I think the Track IR is the go, You cant believe the difference it makes and its practically 0 time to get used to. I remember a guy over on the frugals forums saying once that a Track IR malfunction was an automatic abort for him in his checklists

[Python]

Did you see the thread about a sim flight expo i think it was where they had a bad light issue in the venue.They solved it by putting a polystyrene cup over the tir unit. I'll try and dig it out.

 

Very interesting, if you could find that i would be greatful, worth a try if nothing els.

[isoul]

You priority list should be :

 

1) Buy HOTAS (or any stick that lets you control the aircraft with ease)

2) Buy TrackIR (the eXperience is better than you probably imagined)

3) Buy warmer pyjamas

4) Buy some carrots your mama told you

5) Buy your dog a new rubber bone

.

.

.

n-1) Buy yourself a fluffy teddy bear

n) Buy Rudder Pedals (they cost more and are used less than you believed in the first place)

 

In general... Once you have a HOTAS that lets you control the Shark you go for the TrackIR (remember that TrackIR 4 is good enough and cost less)

[Woots]

You could mount a TrackClip Pro upon a microphone-only headset. That would let you keep using your speakers for sound, if that happens to be a priority for you. LabTec makes one that will work.

 

I use one of my wife's hair barrettes. They come in a six pack for $9 and can be found in virtually any store that sells shampoo. They come in different sizes, are VERY comfortable and the TrackClip Pro clip mounts securely to it.

 

IMHO, Naturalpoint needs to push this as an easy solution. Their ad just ways that it "fits over-the-ear style headsets" - which doesn't do a lot for people with speakers. I almost didn't buy Trackir because of this.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Woots

[tflash]

Well, I must confess I have TrackIr but do not use it. First of all I indeed had the sun-through-window problem since my room is at the wrong side of the house, and second I just cannot adapt to the TrackIr experience: I feel I have to do unnatural headmovements and I get this pain in my neck.

 

I also found the trackclip pro thing very annoying, even though I always use a headset.

 

But then again I'm very sorry for that because you really need TrackIr in this game, there is no doubt about that.

[Booger]

Exactly. You can enjoy the game without TrackIR/other view utility, but the most enjoyable experience will be you behind a good HOTAS that responds well to your input.

 

As far as pedals, I'm not sure I would agree with their lack of usage. I use the hell out of mine...besides very minor adjusting, the rudder is used in every turn. Hell, I use rudder before I start my bank.

 

I could fly np without TrackIR, but I wouldn't bother flying a helicopter without pedals personally.

[TKMR]

Thank you for the overwhelming response everyone! This is why I love this community! =D

 

Based on the responses I'm seeing, I've decided to go with the HOTAS first, then save up some money for TrackIR, or do a free alternative or something.

 

So now the question is, what HOTAS? Unfortunately, I am on a limited budget, so nothing extravagant (i.e. the Logitech G-4000 or whatever it is that sucks anyways). I've thought about the Thrustmaster Warthog, but everything I've seen says it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of $400, which is way too expensive.

 

So what are my choices? Saitek X52? X52Pro?

[Maulkin]

I would recommend the TrackIR over the HOTAS any day of the week. Most stuff with Black Shark I use the mouse with the clickable cockpit anyways.

 

EDIT: Oops just saw the last page here. Guess it depends on what existing joystick you have. I had a MS Sidewinder joystick (needed to twist it for rudder control) and found the TrackIR had more impact to my immersion than when I finally upgraded to a Saitek X-52 Pro. Don't get me wrong... the X-52 made life easier... I just found that I could live without the X-52 but I could not live without the TrackIR. Just my opinion tho.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Maulkin

[PhoenixBvo]

My first HOTAS was the X45. Not bad, but there was too much play in the stick. Plus I was not entirely satisfied with the programmability which Saitek offered. Perhaps this has changed with the X52 though.

 

Then I went for the Cougar... Its a entirely different league feeling and control wise. Also very versatile with programming possibilities and there are lots of profiles out there for reference and customising.

 

But its also a do-it-yourself package hardwarewise if you want to get it really satisfactory. There used to be a very active modding community on www.frugalsworld.com but that site is dead and I don't know where all the modding guides have gone :(.

The biggest issue with the cougar are its gimbals and pots. The gimbals wear quickly and have an annoying spring force dip in the centre of each axis. Also, lots of people have reported spiking potmeters. I modded my cougar with the U2-NXT mod which includes Hall sensors and makes it the best stick out there (as long as the HOTAS Warthog isn't available yet). If you can get your hands on a U2-NXT modded cougar, I'd definitely recommend that. Should be no problem as soon as the Warthog hits the shelves.

All I can say is that the Saitek feels extremely light and cheap now and I couldn't go back to it anymore. I wonder what I'll say of the Cougar after the Warthog comes out... D*** I have to start saving some money :D

[bengo]

Hi Phoenix,

 

this is where the Cougar crowd hangs out nowadays :

http://www.cougar.flyfoxy.com/

 

And this is where some of the Frugal-survivor gather :

http://frugalsrefugees.yuku.com/directory

[Booger]

So what are my choices? Saitek X52? X52Pro?

 

It really depends. For BS, X52/Pro is by far more than adequate.

 

If you're looking at getting into the A-10 after release, eh...I'm sure it'll still fare well, but from what I've gathered, a good portion of the community is getting into/has got into the split throttle sets.

 

I would (actually intending to) stick with the X52. It's quite versatile.

 

I really can't comment on any other HOTAS since I'm pretty much a happy little biotch to Saitek.

[PhoenixBvo]

Hi Phoenix,

 

this is where the Cougar crowd hangs out nowadays :

http://www.cougar.flyfoxy.com/

 

And this is where some of the Frugal-survivor gather :

http://frugalsrefugees.yuku.com/directory

 

Super! Thanks Bengo. I hadn't looked for it for a long time since my cougar flies like a dream, but cool to know!

[CyBerkut]

So now the question is, what HOTAS? Unfortunately, I am on a limited budget, so nothing extravagant (i.e. the Logitech G-4000 or whatever it is that sucks anyways). I've thought about the Thrustmaster Warthog, but everything I've seen says it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of $400, which is way too expensive.

 

So what are my choices? Saitek X52? X52Pro?

 

For a budget approach to a HOTAS, that is what I'd suggest looking at. The Saitek X52 Pro if you can swing it, or X52 if you really need to keep the expenditure down. The X52 Pro has some improvements in the internals, as well as looking more appropriate to a military sim.

 

If you go that route, I'd suggest that you download the latest drivers and profile software from Saitek's site and then do your install from those, rather than use what is on the CD included with the controller. They may be the same version, but it is also quite possibe that the downloads will be newer.

[Pigmachine]

I used to have a Cougar Hotas, saitek pedals and TIR4, sold it all off, regretted it.. and got myself a saitek x52 pro, and I havn't missed the TIR so much as I thought. So go for a decent hotas, and get a tir when you get more money.

[Python]

So what are my choices? Saitek X52? X52Pro?

 

All il say on this is that I have the X52 pro and i love it, makes a huge difference to the cyborg evo i had before it. If you are a casual simmer like me then it should be more than adequette for your needs. All the best.

[jbeam]

Thank you for the overwhelming response everyone! This is why I love this community! =D

 

Based on the responses I'm seeing, I've decided to go with the HOTAS first, then save up some money for TrackIR, or do a free alternative or something.

 

So now the question is, what HOTAS? Unfortunately, I am on a limited budget, so nothing extravagant (i.e. the Logitech G-4000 or whatever it is that sucks anyways). I've thought about the Thrustmaster Warthog, but everything I've seen says it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of $400, which is way too expensive.

 

So what are my choices? Saitek X52? X52Pro?

 

If you're on a tight budget, the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS is a good option:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Flight-Hotas-X/dp/B001CXYMFS

 

I recently got it, after picking up BS, and am happy with it so far. It seems well built (particularly given the low price) and gives you enough buttons to get by (although you will need to use the keyboard more than someone with an X52).

[Booger]

Wow, I actually was looking at getting my oldest a HOTAS since he likes watching me, but he would tear it up.

 

That one would be perfect for him.

 

+1 Thanks for sharing jbeam.

[bumfire]

and it looks like it even has a rocker rudder, thats something I miss from my old broken x45, I loved that rocker rudder, I hate the twist sticks that saitek released after the 45.

[Waldo_II]

Dude, you can build your own headtracking for like fourty bucks, man.

 

Cheap webcam- $25

3x IR LEDs - $7

Soldering iron - $15

Solder - $2

Some wire - $2

Stuff found around the house - a few minutes, but since time is money, $0.50

 

The software (Freetrack) is free, so all you have to do is build the stuff for the LEDs, which is far, far easier than you think. Once you have the stuff in your hands in front of you, you'll know where to go. I ran down to a radioshack and got the LEDs, a tiny switch, and a AA battery holder (all of which were grossly overpriced but still ran me under $15 or so). The LEDs were rated at like 1.3 volts, so I didn't have to bother with any resistors or anything like that. I just soldered the negative bits together, the positive bits together, and those to the respective leads coming out of the battery holder. I took some pens and a scrap of plastic and hot glued that stuff together for the mounting structure, and then I velcro the thing to my headset when I want to use it.

 

The webcam bit is simple too. All cameras are basically the same once you take it apart. Behind the plastic or glass lens is a little filter that allows visible light to pass through, but is a wall to infrared light. You remove that filter, then cover the front with a material that blocks visible light but lets infrared pass through (floppy-disk material works, or more abundant is old-style camera film), and then the camera will see only infrared light. This allows the software to recognize the infrared LEDs best.

 

Technically you can use regular LEDs and skip all of the webcam surgery, but then you would have to play in a completely dark room. The software just tries to find three bright lights from the webcam stream. One dude actually used candles mounted on a wide-brim hat (a fire hazard, no doubt).

 

My post on the Freetrack forums is here. It is the post on the top of the page. I know it looks like there is a lot of stuff in the top picture, but I included all of that for the sake of being accurate. You don't need a Dremel, nor that much velcro, nor a swtich, nor a CD jewel case, nor a ruler, nowhere near that much wire, and face it; you won't use the safety goggles either. I know I didn't.

 

There is even a tutorial for the webcam surgery on the Freetrack website.

[DTWD]

Or...you just buy TrackIR

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Maulkin did you find it difficult to trim after you gave up forcefeedback ( I also use a MS SIdewinder FFB 2)? Also if your looking for a low cost headtracker you could try Cachya. Cachya is alot less technical than FreeTrack.

[TKMR]

Once again, thank you for the responses! You guys are truly one of a kind. ;)

 

What I think I'm going to do is wait and see how much the TM Warthog will actually retail for, and then based on that I will either grab that, or just go with the X52 Pro. I've been dealing with the HAT switch as my view thingy for more than a year now, I think I can deal with it a little longer. Haha. But after I grab that HOTAS I will def. be saving up for a TIR.

 

In the meantime I might build one of those other solutions you all have been suggesting.

[jojo]

I would say buy a X-52 (even a used one) and Cougar MFD.

 

I Have a X-45and cougar MFD and I neverhave to clik with th mouse while in combat, everything I needis on my devices...

 

http://files.lockon.ru/en/164/

 

Caution, ther is no LCD display here, you just print and put inside the device.

I have roughly the real Ka-50 controlson my Hotas.

 

 

I also have the trackIR pro, butI don't always use it.

[LtFransky]

in my eyes you can not compare freetrack utility with Track Ir cause Freetrack does not provide the smooth and fast performance!)

 

 

Bu!! &h!t. I built my FT for Black Shark, and I find it hard to believe that TIR is any more consistent or accurate. This is in spite of what the undercover Natural Point employees would have you believe. :)

[Insanatrix]

Bu!! &h!t. I built my FT for Black Shark, and I find it hard to believe that TIR is any more consistent or accurate. This is in spite of what the undercover Natural Point employees would have you believe. :)

 

Don't take this the wrong way, However If you haven't owned a Track IR then how can you pass judgement on it's accuracy or abilities?