Target Identification in the KA-50.

[droz]

This is something I'm kind of lost on. Target Identification in the KA-50 in full sim mode is...needless to say...difficult at best. I'm not quite sure if I'm looking at a friendly or enemy.

 

Are there any tricks, tips, or ideas that could help me better identify enemy ground targets from friendly ground targets? I'd prefer not to get close enough for them to start firing at me to figure out if they are friendly or not.

[slug88]

Basically it's all about studying the briefing, memorizing where the enemy will be, memorizing where friendlies will be, and keep track of where you are.

[droz]

Basically it's all about studying the briefing, memorizing where the enemy will be, memorizing where friendlies will be, and keep track of where you are.

 

The problem is when there are friendlies mixed in with enemy. It's....tough.

[Stretch]

If you want to "cheat" (some would consider it cheating, some would not) you could use your AI wingmen ... they will never attack friendly units. So you could have them recon and see if they pick up the unit or not (though be aware that they might miss the unit if their skill level is low too), or you could just order them to attack the unit and hear if they say "unable" (though they might say unable for other reasons).

 

Like any IFF technology, your wingmen aren't a silver bullet, but they can help.

[Eddie]

Indeed it is difficult, and so it should be. The only advice I could give (other than studying the briefing) is to spend some time learning to recognise the vehicles and equipment in the sim visually, and then learn what countries operate them. For example if you see an Abrams and a T-80 in the Skhval and you are flying for the Russians fighting NATO, it's safe to say you should be killing the Abrams.

 

Of course it's not always easy to recognise one vehicle from another, especially at long range and/or when you have similar equipment on each side, but IMHO it is certainly basic knowledge every pilot should have.

[sweinhart3]

yep. but if a unit is firing or moving in the direction of your forward line of troops, its probably an enemy. It can also be a little tough at first, but get to know what the enemy units look like. they are different. you can see the difference between an M1A1 and T80 or M1A2 and BTR.

[aairon]

This is the Achilles heal of all military ops right now , we see it in the papers every day. how innocent civilians were slaughtered, It is what is keeping drones from fighting the entire conflict (name conflict here) on autonomous mode they would go out and kill your buddies. This is one way that a simulator may actually save a couple of lives.;)

[WH_Boomer]

Indeed it is difficult, and so it should be. The only advice I could give (other than studying the briefing) is to spend some time learning to recognise the vehicles and equipment in the sim visually, and then learn what countries operate them. For example if you see an Abrams and a T-80 in the Skhval and you are flying for the Russians fighting NATO, it's safe to say you should be killing the Abrams.

 

Of course it's not always easy to recognise one vehicle from another, especially at long range and/or when you have similar equipment on each side, but IMHO it is certainly basic knowledge every pilot should have.

 

Thus one of our members created this little jewel. War Hawks DCS Training Information. Once you're on that page click on either the Nato or Russian Equipment list (left hand column) to get a Shkval view of various vehicles. Mouse over the view and it will change to a color slide with name of what the vehicle actually is. The DCS Object Viewer is still a WIP, but does have some useful information.

 

Enjoy,

~S~

[aairon]

Is there some reason we can't link this to this site ? without having to go elsewhere?:)

[aairon]

Most forums discourage posting of sites which attempt to undermine the intent of the main "mother" site.

Are you trying to shove this thing down our gullets Boomer?

 

If so SHAME ON YOU! BOOMER!

 

Edited August 13, 2010 by aairon

[Speed]

Target identification is simply a matter of learning what various tanks, trucks, APCs, SAMs, helicopters look like. You HAVE to learn what an M1 looks like, and what a T-80 looks like, what a BMP-2 looks like, what a M2 Bradley looks like, etc etc. Study the images in the encyclopedia, online, wherever you can find them. Maybe you should by a Janes Tank Recognition Manual? But really, the units that the US uses look VASTLY different than the ones Russia uses, it shouldn't take all THAT much studying.

[WH_Boomer]

Shame on me for sharing a training aid that one of our members created?

 

~S~

[zdXu]

Chapter "The Russian Air losses in the five day war 2008 against Georgia",

page 105, The Tanks of August, The Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies:

 

"The fact that at least half the Russian aircraft losses were friendly fire incidents came as something of a shock.

In the absence of any real coordination between the Army and the AirForce, the two services were essentially waging two separte wars.

 

Pilots were not fully apprised of the situation on the ground. They were receiving inaccurate and out of date intelligence. According to the commander of the 368th Attack Aviation Regiment, Col. Kobylash, at the start of the hositities the pilots did not even have any detailed information on the structure and strength of the Georgian air defenses.

 

Russian ground forces also lacked information about the situation in the air, and were not sure until the end of combat operations whether the Russian Air Force had achieved air superiority."...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=958230&postcount=15

[bumfire]

If in doubt, fly towards the vehicle you suspect may or may not be the enemy, if it shoots at you, then its then enemy :)

[CAT_101st]

Just take the time to learn each target as it shows in the TV. Over time you will start to notice the diffrinces. Also learn the max range of the targets you are attacking so you can get as close as you can befor engaging. 5K for tanks is a good distance and you shuld have no problem with seeing what they are.

[Speedbrake]

These missions and charts may help. I did not create them but downloaded them at some point. The ID charts were taken from the mission editor library

 

ID missions: http://www.4shared.com/file/_rEu5Tnz/Vehicle_ID.html

ID Charts: http://www.4shared.com/document/mf5CF0Vc/Vehicle_ID_Chart.html

 

Hope these help.

[dok_rp]

Most forums discourage posting of sites which attempt to undermine the intent of the main "mother" site.

Are you trying to shove this thing down our gullets Boomer?

 

If so SHAME ON YOU! BOOMER!

 

 

 

Ok... if this was supposed to be a joke, I truly fail to grasp its meaning. What was the point of this saying?

[Heli Shed]

Hi OP.

 

The answer is what we call KRF's - Key Recognition Features. How many wheels does it have, short or long hull, long or short barrelled weapon, low or high profile, tracked or wheeled, Turret or no turret, storage bins or not, ERA or plated, etc etc. In essence, to be accurate, it is extremely difficult. Even in RL, we sometimes get it wrong although the Systems Approach to Training (SAT) for US and UK Forces still maintains that we must have this as part of our annual testing, for every arm. Saying that though, in the British Army, we no longer do, and havn't since 2005 but our specialists of course do. By specialist i`m talking about the Javelin Platoon, MMG Platoon and basically what we now term as the FSG.

 

My advice to you to become an assett in the sim to your teammates and not a hinderence by taking out your own ground units or being kicked from the server for TK's, is to load up a basic mission in singleplayer. In ME, create static objects of each vehicle type in a row, chuck in a KA-50 at 8km, establish a hover and examine what each of the vehicles look like through the Shkval at 7x and 23x. Of course you will have to play with it, or create other areas / wp's, where you will gain a different angle on the vehicle types.

 

Make sure you write down (hardcopy) of what each vehicle actually is - from L to R (for example), so that you have the DS answer of what each murky appearing object is. As one post has already mentioned, at about 5km an MBT is clearly an MBT, but at 8km it becomes a little more difficult to differentiate the country of origin!

 

Good luck.

 

'T'

[TeeJay82]

Well here`s how i do it.

 

Take off and procede to mission area to the rear of friendly armor ... gun barrels pointing my way = enemy`s

 

in the planner its a good idea to memorize where friendlys are and approach the mission area from there

[Madman777]

Look at the way the turret is pointed (in most cases) if it's pointed towards your troops or towards the way you came from it's most likely enemy.

[Heli Shed]

Look at the way the turret is pointed (in most cases) if it's pointed towards your troops or towards the way you came from it's most likely enemy.

 

Dear oh dear oh dear!

 

Absolute drivvle! What if the mission designer has written in rear protection, Zulu Musters or employed the principle of mutual support? Just because a barrell is pointing at you does not mean its an enemy. 'KNOW' your enemy and its hardware, read the mission briefs and you may, just may, not end up taking out your own ground C/S's. If you are serious about this sim, learn the vehicle types, either by the method to which i have previously eluded to, or even the WH Vehicle ID through the SHKVAL. Either way is acceptable. But............if you have no idea what you are talking about, then please.......don't seek approval in a post, by posting drivvle.

[Itkovian]

Look at the way the turret is pointed (in most cases) if it's pointed towards your troops or towards the way you came from it's most likely enemy.

 

I know this isn't modeled... but the Leo 2s need to turn their turret to point behind them in order to reload their ready rack. Such an ID method would be most tragic in this case. :)

 

Itkovian

[Heli Shed]

I know this isn't modeled... but the Leo 2s need to turn their turret to point behind them in order to reload their ready rack. Such an ID method would be most tragic in this case. :)

 

Itkovian

 

:thumbup: +1 from me. Likewise any MBT transiting down a hill of >42 degrees

[Frederf]

I think if you're using military hardware recognition for primary friend-of-foe target identification, you've already lost. Such techniques at "terminal identification" meaning the i.d. at the end of the target acquisition phase right before pressing the trigger are good, but not from the start. Especially in Ru vs G scenarios, equipment check is very unreliable and is only good as a final safety check in the ID process.

 

One should take off with the ability to, from memory, sketch the battlefield on a piece of paper with major features and general enemy and friendly locations. The planner usually has all major mobile friendly routes shown so it shouldn't be a surprise.

 

Where targets are and when must be the primary method simply for its enhancements to targeting speed. What the target is doing can be a helpful medium method to use but it takes time to observe actions and is subject to more error.

 

In the GOW missions it's very clear where the enemy is and what both sides are doing. I've never had problems keeping them apart as long as my SA was at normal levels. The Deployment campaign is slightly harder but less intensity.