A10 & FC2 Compatibility

[Azazael]

Hi all

I brought FC2 a little over a month ago as soon as it was available on Amazon UK. Its online review was only in April and I am Sorry to hear after this short period of time it’s being described as "FC2 is already dated and showing its age".

 

Currently it is compatible with DCS BS (multiplayer) and I am concerned that its compatibility with DCS may be broken to accommodate larger maps ??

This will in my opinion disenfranchise all our colleagues that want to fly Mig 29/F15/Su27/Su30/A10a within the DCS multiplayer environment.

For what appears little gain or am I missing something ?

 

Of course I understand that this is all conjecture and avidly await DCS 10c:)

[EtherealN]

Plus I wouldn't hold my breath for an official announcement as I wouldn't be surprised if ED were leaving the decision for after the Warthog release.

 

Correct. There is no way to be certain about how difficult (translates to - how much it will cost and how much it will delay other products) it would be to bring FC2 back up into compatiblity until the product it's supposed to be made compatible with is actually complete. Educated guesses can be made, but ED doesn't exactly have a tradition of making announcements based on educated guesses. (Since this community is so good at starting flames whenever something changes from their expectations.)

[EtherealN]

Hi all

 

First of all, please please please stop using all those damn font settings. Makes quoting you a hellish exercise.

 

I brought FC2 a little over a month ago as soon as it was available on Amazon UK. Its online review was only in April and I am Sorry to hear after this short period of time it’s being described as "FC2 is already dated and showing its age".

 

FC2 is an expansion to a game that was released in 2003.

 

Currently it is compatible with DCS BS (multiplayer) and I am concerned that its compatibility with DCS may be broken to accommodate larger maps ??

 

Compatibility may be broken because it requires significant development effort at each release and each patch to any of the products to bring it back into compatibility. And since Ubisoft owns the LockOn IP in the west making it harder for ED to get paid for said development work, it is not necessarily easy to justify the cost of development.

 

DCS:BS and FC2 compatibility was a bonus.

 

This will in my opinion disenfranchise all our colleagues that want to fly Mig 29/F15/Su27/Su30/A10a within the DCS multiplayer environment.

 

They have all roles covered within that setting, except for attack helicopters, and the Flaming Cliffs community had no problem staying alive even before the DCS:BS compatibility was introduced with the FC2 expansion. Indeed - I remind you that LockOn stayed alive quite well from 2003 to 2010 without any attack helicopters. What exactly will be the problem for FC2 as you see it?

 

For what appears little gain or am I missing something ?

 

You are missing the fact that developing software costs money. A lot of money.

[GGTharos]

You're going to be way too busy inside the A-10C pit to worry about anyone else, especially anyone who isn't part of your flight.

 

You'll probably be so busy at times you won't be able to work the plane and talk on TS at the same time ;)

 

I have recently realised that flying the much anticipated DCS A10c in the FLAMING CLIFFS 2 program is "unlikely", this knowledge has caused me to re-evaluate my intent to buy this A10c program.

While there are people out there who will get the A10c sim and be happy to fly it exclusively I cannot see any point in flying "Billy No Mates" in a single type sim program... which is why I did not buy "Black Shark" until it became flyable in FC2.

 

I would be most interested to know just how many people flying FC2/BS are being discouraged from getting the DCS A10c program for the same reason.

[G3]

i would have thought that since dcs-bs and fc2 were at this point compatible any future changes could be made for both products without too much problems but hey that's just my wishful thinking :thumbup:

 

one thing is for sure, time will tell.

[GGTharos]

It is definitely, absolutely not that simple.

 

DCS is beginning to out-pace what used to be the FC2 engine, and Ka-50, in certain in-cockpit operations which are critical to the sim

and simply cannot be represented with the SFM planes.

 

 

i would have thought that since dcs-bs and fc2 were at this point compatible any future changes could be made for both products without

too much problems but hey that's just my wishful thinking :thumbup:

[Frazer]

Seen that FC2 basically has the same file structure as DCS:Blackshark I don't see any updating problem.

If ED didn't want Lockon to be compatible with future DCS modules, why would they make FC2 in the first place?

 

If you see FC2 as a module, the "only" thing ED needs to do is replace (patch) changed files in every module to keep compatibility up. When DCS:A10 comes out, you can make a compatibility patch for FC2 that removes the SFM A10.

 

And so for every new module till all FC2 aircraft are moduled.

[Sticky]

Seen that FC2 basically has the same file structure as DCS:Blackshark I don't see any updating problem.

 

Are you serious? You are joking right? :cry:

[GGTharos]

That is a 'correct on the surface' opinion, but ignores other problems IMHO.

 

Seen that FC2 basically has the same file structure as DCS:Blackshark I don't see any updating problem.

If ED didn't want Lockon to be compatible with future DCS modules, why would they make FC2 in the first place?

 

If you see FC2 as a module, the "only" thing ED needs to do is replace (patch) changed files in every module to keep compatibility up. When DCS:A10 comes out, you can make a compatibility patch for FC2 that removes the SFM A10.

 

And so for every new module till all FC2 aircraft are moduled.

[Glowing_Amraam]

Im looking at it this way;

 

Remember when the DCS series was first announced? Some people went "OMG, why!? What about lock on? Are you abandoning this great series omg!" ... And now, those same people are so greatful for the choice of starting off a BRAND new incredibly detailed product line, with each new DCS module featuring a new aircraft, better graphics, AI etc etc etc.

 

Im betting the same thing will happen when/if FC2 looses online compatibility with the DCS series, but then later realizes just why the decision was made. :)

[G3]

That is a 'correct on the surface' opinion, but ignores other problems IMHO.

 

the surface is all most of us have to go on :D

so for myself and others not in the know it seems all too easy from here.

 

if you ask me the modules/releases are coming out too quickly,

i barely get to learn one and another comes out, slow down the releases :D

 

would be nice to see fc2 remain compatible until the fast movers are in the dcs series but i understand that the future is where it's at.

[Oscar]

This says it all:

 

Q: Will DCS: A-10C Warthog be online-compatible with DCS: Black Shark and Flaming Cliffs 2?

A: We hope to be able to release a compatibilty patch for DCS: Black Shark after release. Compatibility with FC2 is unlikely.

 

What's not to understand?

[Scabbers]

GG hit it on the head. In a functional realistic cockpit you are going to be extremely busy. I feel for those that are going to be learning this pit. will be a steeper learning curve that the shark in my opinion

[Moa]

Seen that FC2 basically has the same file structure as DCS:Blackshark I don't see any updating problem.

If ED didn't want Lockon to be compatible with future DCS modules, why would they make FC2 in the first place?

Because they were sick of us whinging about wasn't right (although was probably near the limit of capabilities of machines when FC1 came out half a decade ago). They thought that some things could be improved in a reasonable amount of effort and reasonable timescale. They even went so far as it make it work with the BlackShark.

 

If you see FC2 as a module, the "only" thing ED needs to do is replace (patch) changed files in every module to keep compatibility up. When DCS:A10 comes out, you can make a compatibility patch for FC2 that removes the SFM A10.

 

And so for every new module till all FC2 aircraft are moduled.

Oh, if only it were that easy to change software. Think of it this way, you can't easily change foundations on an already-built house and rebuilding a new house from scratch takes time. At the moment ED are concentrating on adding a second wing to the new house rather than fixing up the old house for the third time. It may turn out the old building can be renovated rather than condemned, but the building inspectors are on-site at the new house at the moment so they won't make able to make the call for a while. Now, the same applies to software - particularly complex systems such as flight simulators.

[Frazer]

Seen the fact that ED is saying "unlikely" and so, not ruling it out, I guess it is more dependant on marketing. Updating costs money, at some point they will have to bail FC2.

 

Then again, I don't see too much trouble to update FC2. If DCS Blackshark needs to be compatible with DCS A10, it is not too hard to update FC2 aswell seen the file structure.

 

We will see. We can all just guess, I think ED themselves don't even know it yet (referring to "unlikely").

 

After all, it's all about money.

[LawnDart]

If DCS:A-10C allows to add other flyables (for addl. 3D models, cockpits, SFM's off A/I aircraft etc.) I'm happy! If not, I'll probably stick to FC2... (aside from the A-10 of course).

[Scudslaker]

i agree with Frazer,

i see no problems to make the modules speak to each other, including the older modules,

 

the communication between the modules, is the only important fact in my eyes, that is needed to be realized.

 

where is what vehicle, with speed, altitude and weapons..

there is no need to rework the "old" FC2 engine completely, means if it s compatible, there is no need for DX11 in FC 2, it s the future of gaming to bring all together and i think with a little work, it s possible.

if ED holds on their moduled philosophie, means you need to think about what to fly, actually rotary or fixed wing, before you start a online session, you choose a module and see the other pilots even if you cannot take control of the planes included in the other compatible module, so what is the problem to have the old engine working with a newer engine together in one game room.

 

i hope you understand what i mean, if i am absolutely wrong, tell me!)

[Frazer]

Would like to add, besides to the SFM there is nothing "old" about FC2.

[Scudslaker]

yes correct, that is what i mean, it isn t an old product!)

that why i used the "..."

[59th_Reaper]

Dear ED!

 

The DCS series is a simply LO clone. You're saying it's a brand new product, but not. This program has same good things and bad things from the Flanker2.0+LO+FC trio. What other that is the garnish (newer DX, menus, etc.). I don't see the concept in the DCS series. Why don't you make a start-up base and you must make only the new planes in the future. DCS:A-10C plenty other like the DCS:BS, but you're saying it's a series. The ED said a long time ago: "We will publish new planes (with AFM, clickable cockpit) by 9 months..." Where are these planes? The BS was came out in March of 2009. I think these are 17 months, but the next plane is nowhere. I agree with Frazer in the compatibility question. I think of course so many people will play with DCS:A-10C, but the "only 1 plane sims" age was expired... The people would like playing online with different planes. If you don't respect this, you're on the bad way...

 

P.S.: I like the ED's product (Flanker series, LO, FC), but i would like any powerful concurrency by now, because the ED is sitting on the bay...

 

Best regards,

59th_Reaper

Edited August 26, 2010 by 59th_Reaper

[159th_Viper]

. The ED said a long time ago: "We will publish new planes (with AFM, clickable cockpit) by 9 months..." Where are these planes? The BS was came out in March of 2009. I think these are 17 months, but the next plane is nowhere......

 

Here we go again........:doh:

 

What happened between March 2009 and May 2010?

[Bucic]

 

What happened between March 2009 and May 2010?

ED invested time in FC2. ED shouldn't do that -> FC2 shouldn't come out -> this topic wouldn't pop up :P

[59th_Reaper]

Here we go again........:doh:

 

What happened between March 2009 and May 2010?

 

 

Gratulations! You've rived the essence from my minds... Why the ED invest his energy into the FC2 project if leave this now? Fox leather effect?

Edited August 26, 2010 by 59th_Reaper

[159th_Viper]

... Why the ED invest his energy into the FC2 project if leave this now?......

 

Because of the absolutely deliciously evil little temper-tantrums thrown at regular intervals by us, the Community, for years and years complaining, moaning and crying about aspects that were wrong/needed fixing in LockOn 1.12.

 

Many a fellow forum-member were lost in the battles! Where were you when these cat-fights laid waste to the forums?

[26-J39]

the "only 1 plane sims" age was expired... The people would like playing online with different planes. If you don't respect this, you're on the bad way...

 

P.S.: I like the ED's product (Flanker series, LO, FC), but i would like any powerful concurrency by now, because the ED is sitting on the bay...

 

That is quite simply plain ridiculous! I guess DCS:BS was a complete fail for ED then. Seems like we got a heap of pro software developers in this thread that know better than ED does. Similar file structures don't mean squat really and definitely don't mean programs can be intertwined with ease. Even if it was easy to make FC2 and DCS:A10C compatible i think ED would have serious reservation towards this, personally i think it would be an insult to ED's work/DCS:A10C to do this. Hey while were here lets throw some new textures in Flanker and make that compatible with DCS too..:P