swift Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Nah, it's not really a competition, the Shkval wins hands down ;) Its just that I can't count how many times I wished the TGP have some kind of helmet mounted sight as interface with the pod. How come the USAF engineers didn't think about it?! :doh: Shkval: no FLIR. TGP: no HMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 They did ... but the A-10 isn't getting an HMS as apparently it doesn't need one for now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104th_Crunch Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System and Sniper Pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itkovian Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 What's the max magnification for the LITENING? Either way, Shval does not have IR camera, and so is at a major disadvantage by default. Itkovian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 The technology available now is astounding. Look at the F35. It doesn't even have a HUD, it's all in the helmet. In my opinion the KA50 has a great deal of innovative features and is an awesome helo. Its HMS and Shkval aren't among those features though. These designs are equal to U.S. designs from the early 60s (see phantom). The Apache was being built around the same time as the Shark and featured a HMS that actually had FLIR image overlay in the monocle, as well as decluttered HUD data. In the Apache as well as the Cobra (60s) the trajectory of the gun rounds from the cannon is computed on the fly and slaved to the pilots EYEBALL. Look at something and pull the trigger and it's gone. No lining up your head trying to get close, then checking the screen and slewing it in closer. If the Shkval was slaved to other systems I might agree that it is approaching the functional capabilities of the Litening, but it isn't.. and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In reality the Litening is about 30yrs ahead of the Shkval. I would also speculate that the HMS in the Blackshark was purposely designed with with simplicity and reservation, like so much other Soviet hardware. In kind, the A-10C was not equipped with a HMS as it's simply not consistent with the mission and isn't needed. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingneptune117 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I agree. With the F-35, in a certain mode with the Helmet, you can see through the jet in all directions. Hows that for a targeting pod? "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci Intel i7-4790k | Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo heat sink | Thermaltake Core V71 case | 750W EVGA PSU | 8gb G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 RAM | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 LGA 1150 motherboard | Samsung SSD | ASUS STRIX GTX 970 | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | TIR 5 | Razer Deathadder | Corsair K70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) Nah, it's not really a competition, the Shkval wins hands down ;) Its just that I can't count how many times I wished the TGP have some kind of helmet mounted sight as interface with the pod. How come the USAF engineers didn't think about it?! :doh: Shkval: no FLIR. TGP: no HMS. The Shkval doesn't have a HMS, the KA-50 does. A-10 does not have HMS, but like other guys stated here, F-18E and F-16C (blk 40 to 52+ depending on version) do have the capability to carry that TGP and do have JHMCS. So, the way I see it; Shkval= No night capability in MIG-27 and SUt25T, and KA-50 but HMS in the KA-50 LITENING pod= FLIR, Laser designation, long distance target designation and weapons guidance and when paired with the correct aircraft HMS :D the Shkval is obviously superior :smartass: PS Our engineers do not build aircraft nor TGP Edited November 9, 2010 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog 7.62 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 There was an article in Air Force magazine in June 2008 that said a helmet mounted cueing system for the A-10 was in the works. I don't know if thats still the case. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Gigabyte GA97XSLI Core i7 4790 @ 4.0 Ghz MSI GTX 1080ti 32 Mb RAM DDR3-2133 512GB SSD for DCS HP Reverb VR HMD Thrustmaster Warthog & MFG Crosswind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 HMS or not, the Litening II is arguably 30-40 years ahead in signal processing, giving it superior image quality (when saying superior, i actually mean they don't even play in the same ballpark), target aquiring capabilities, interfacing options. There's a lot of stuff that the shkval can do, but the TGP does it so much better, it's hard to speak of the same feature. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTJS17_Fire Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 And with the Shkval - in the Su-25T for instance, I can only see forward with a few degrees in all directions. The Litening II has much better elevation and azimuth angles, described in the A-10C Flight Manual on page 328. With the A-10C, I don't have to fly toward targets for observing. kind regards, Fire Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 SHKVAL Source I-25I Shkval The Shkval system designed for the Su-25T (and Ka-50) includes a high-resolution TV camera, with a 27° by 36° field of view wide-angle mode for search and a 0.7° , 23x magnification narrow-angle mode for targeting, and a laser target designator (Pritchal) boresighted to the camera. Shkval detects, tracks and identifies fixed and moving ground targets and slow airborne targets. It has manual, software corrected and automatic tracking. It can iteroperate with the navigation system, the radar and thermal imager pod (if fitted). The Shkval system is steerable through 35° to either side of the aircraft, and from 15° above the centerline to 80° below. Its range against tank-sized targets was 8 km. Prichal operates at 1.064 micron wavelength. It uses a 5Hz pulse repetition rate in rangefinding and 10-25Hz in illumination mode. It has greater range than the older Klen-PS and a narrower beam of 1.5 angular minutes. Rangefinding error was no more than ±5m, maximum range 10km, weight was 46kg and maximum power consumption 4.8kW. Shkval detection range was 20-24km for a large landmark like a bridge, 15km for a single building, 10km for a fighter and 6km for a helicopter. Shkval-M is an upgraded version that was intended for the Su-25TM. It can perform automatic search and correlative target ID in scanning mode, cued by the Kopyo-25 radar or the aircraft's onboard navigation system. Shkval-M also finds threats illuminated by ground based designators, and can be used to designate targets for engagement by Krasnopol laser guided artillery shells. LITENING II AT Military Avionics Systems. Ian Moir, Allan Seabridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runibl Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Found this: July 19/10: Raytheon announces a $12.6 million USAF contract for Phase 1 integration and qualification of the Helmet Mounted Integrated Targeting (HMIT) system for USAF and Air National Guard A-10C and F-16C Block 30/32 aircraft. Raytheon Technical Services Company LLC (RTSC), the prime contractor, is teamed with Gentex Corp. in Simpson, PA to produce the system, based on Gentex’s Visionix Scorpion™ Helmet Mounted Cueing System. HMIT will be a night-vision compatible helmet-mounted display that shows crucial information in high-resolution color imagery directly in the pilot’s field of vision. The color imagery is a step forward, and information displayed will include weapons-cueing, targeting and situational data from on-board and remote sensors. Like other HMDs, the system will track helmet movement to display accurate imagery, regardless of the direction the pilot’s head is turned. The program includes 5 one-year production options, with a potential total value up to $50 million. 1 Runi. "IceCat" Printable A5 F/A-18C Checklist Win 10 Pro 64bit, ASUS Maximus XI Hero, Intel Core I7 9700K @4.7 - 4.9 GHz, Nvidia Asus GeForce GTX 1080TI 11Gb, G.Skill TridentZ RGB DDR4-3200 C16 DC - 32GB (2x(2x8Gb)), Samsung 870 NVME + Multiple Samsung 850 & 860 EVO SSDs, Dell P2414H & U2414H Monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTJS17_Fire Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 LITENING II AT That are two different versions! The Litening AT is the newest version of the Litening family. The Litening II is an older version. produced by Northrop Grumman: LITENING II LITENING III LITENING ER LITENING AT LITENING G4 The original Litening pod was designed in Israel. kind regards, Fire Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Shkval is currently really an ancient device. Its pictures quality is BAD and it is so clumsy... Anyway it has sexy brown CRT monitor :D, plus it has quite nice zoom level. That all advantages of that device. Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorX Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 No flir makes this one an easy win for the Litening IMHO. I used to stress in BS on late afternoon mission starts when the light was fading fast and I knew the Shkval was quickly going to be useless without a SU-25 coming by and dropping Illum Flares. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Is that you John Wayne?.......Is this me?" Full Metal Jacket //My Mission Data Card//My Cold Start Checklist //Clearing a Hung Store Tutorial //CDU Offset//Asterisk Error Correction Procedure//JTAC UTM Coordinate Entry Tutorial//JTAC 9 Line Lat Long Coordinate Entry Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPTIDE Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Shkval is currently really an ancient device. Its pictures quality is BAD and it is so clumsy... Anyway it has sexy brown CRT monitor :D, plus it has quite nice zoom level. That all advantages of that device. Bob. You must curse at yourself every minute of the hours that you fly that evil Russian Su-25 that you love/hate. :D PS: Where's the sig gone? I miss it. :cry: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) Bob. You must curse at yourself every minute of the hours that you fly that evil Russian Su-25 that you love/hate. :D Flying T-Toad is the coolest thing which can be used in LO :P Frogs and their TVs are my favs, but in real life Shkval picture is much much worse than what we have in BS\LO by the way (compared to available photos and videos). PS: Where's the sig gone? I miss it. :cry: Under renovation :D Edited November 9, 2010 by Boberro Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power5 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Not sure I see much of a reason for HMS in the A10. If you are close enough to be able to see your target and accurately put the HMS on it, you need to be on the trigger, not trying to get a lock. If you are at angels 15 then the HMS is not very accurate and you can use the HUD slew to lock the TGP to the target area. The gun does not move so slaving the HMS and the gun does not work. Mav needs a new seeker head that is for sure. Or give me a laser guided Mav so I can designate with the TGP and launch a Mav without needing to get another 5km closer before getting lucky enough for the seeker to lock the target I wanted. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Aaron i7 2600k@4.4ghz, GTX1060-6gb, 16gb DDR3, T16000m, Track IR5 BS2-A10C-UH1-FC3-M2000-F18C-A4E-F14B-BF109 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorX Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Apparently your wish is Raytheon's command...http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Raytheon_Laser_Guided_Maverick_On_Track_999.html [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Is that you John Wayne?.......Is this me?" Full Metal Jacket //My Mission Data Card//My Cold Start Checklist //Clearing a Hung Store Tutorial //CDU Offset//Asterisk Error Correction Procedure//JTAC UTM Coordinate Entry Tutorial//JTAC 9 Line Lat Long Coordinate Entry Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Y'all are crazy. THe schkval wins hands down...... And i can prove it !!! Just let me figure out a way to fit the mercury pod to the KA - 50 First:thumbup: :crazy: (can anyone photoshop that for me, i would love to see what it looks like!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracer2k Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 And with the Shkval - in the Su-25T for instance, I can only see forward with a few degrees in all directions. The Litening II has much better elevation and azimuth angles, described in the A-10C Flight Manual on page 328. With the A-10C, I don't have to fly toward targets for observing. kind regards, Fire this alone is so big advantage which in my opinion is enough to beat the shkval. WOOOOoooooo ------------------------------------------------------ AMD Phenom II x6 1090T 3.2GHz Black edition 8GB DDR3 1333 GeForce GTX580 Windows 7 64bit ------------------------------------------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracer2k Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 That are two different versions! The Litening AT is the newest version of the Litening family. The Litening II is an older version. produced by Northrop Grumman: LITENING II LITENING III LITENING ER LITENING AT LITENING G4 The original Litening pod was designed in Israel. kind regards, Fire wow.. Litening AT is cheap.. only 2mil per unit.. :megalol: /sarcasm off WOOOOoooooo ------------------------------------------------------ AMD Phenom II x6 1090T 3.2GHz Black edition 8GB DDR3 1333 GeForce GTX580 Windows 7 64bit ------------------------------------------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Y'all are crazy. THe schkval wins hands down...... And i can prove it !!! Just let me figure out a way to fit the mercury pod to the KA - 50 First:thumbup: :crazy: (can anyone photoshop that for me, i would love to see what it looks like!) I believe it looked something like that? Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Nice pic !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlandersRevenge Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Coming to it, the Shkval is really a glorified AGM-65K seeker. Dell Studio XPS 1650 Intel i7 1.60 ghz 6gb ram 300mb HD ATI Mobility Radeon 4670 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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